This is the FCB Podcast Network. Great thanks when they drunk job boot change says dun, dun. We don't listen to y'all this d out. We don't listen to. Y'all this d hotel. Make um scream out. Now, let us sound dun because the rockets in the crowd up. Tune in the charge for the Outdoor. Tune in the charge for the Outlaw. Welcome to the Outlaws. This is Darby or the Kingpinmorrow, alongside Robin O'Malley and Dante bry don't forget too Like us on Facebook at facebook dot com slash the Outlaws Radio. Follow us on x and Instagram. At the Outlaws Radio. We have a packed show with short on time, but real quick. Miss O'Malley, how are you. I'm I'm doing real good. I'm doing real good, Darby. I actually almost died this week. I taught my son for the first time how to drive, and he almost drove us through. A grass wall. So we had to go with just use the break and no gas at all. All right, sounds like fun stuff there. Rob's gonna get a bunch of gray hairs by the time he get his license. Do take how you do it, sir, I am good. I am good. I wish our weather would make up his mind. And also, Robert, you supposed to take him to an empty parking lot. It was it wasn't. Oh, we got some real problems. How he hit a wall in the empty part. How he almost hit a wall in the empty. Parking because I said look forward, I said forward, look forward, and immediately his foot went and we went forward, and my mom was in the back to by the ways. All right. So on that note, we have a very special interview that we're gonna get to right now. We have a very special guests on the show today. She is a New York Times best selling author, the author of You Will Own Nothing. My dear friend, Carol Roth, Welcome back. How are you doing. It's always a good day when I'm with you, my friends, although once we get talking, I'm not sure how. Good the day is going to be. But it's a good start to the day with us together. Absolutely absolutely. So here we go. There's a tweet that you made two days ago that I bookmarked because I'm like, we definitely need to talk about this. And one of the things I love about your commentary is that you have a great way of taking these big concepts and breaking it down for the average person. And so we definitely. Got to tackle this because I want to make sure that our listeners are aware. And also, by the way, you are our first guests since we've been on the radio on ninety five point nine FM in Cleveland. So ay, I love that, and congratulations, well deserved and a long time coming to you. Thank you. I appreciate that. So for the tweet that you sent on June third, it said, Americans are not prepared for a double super nova. We are on the precipice of a reset of the global financial order and we are on the cusp of a possible tech upheaval via AI. Americans having to deal with one of those is a once in a lifetime shock. Both is unfathomable. Now that sounds terrifying. Number one. Number two, break that down for me. All right, So just a little bit of street cred that I actually know what I'm talking about, because there are so many people floating in the media, not that they would come on. Your show, but in other places. I have been in finance in economic commentary around these concepts for more than three decades, so you know, I actually am coming from this from a general place of understanding, and if you read You Will Own Nothing or my other books, you can see me kind of laying out the thesis that leads up to this. So basically, I've been trying to come up with a name for this very unusual and I put in the tweet once in a lifetime event, but it's not even in a lifetime, it's like once in an era events that now we have potentially two to contend with. So the first is the changing of the global financial order, and I think that's the one that people maybe have a little bit of a better understanding that we have been in the United States at the center of the global financial economy for around eighty years and that you know, we're getting we're getting a little long in the tooth, and it is not an unusual thing that the global financial order shifts when the entity in. The center of it gets a little long in the tooth. You and before us to the English, and before them it was the Dutch. You go back to the Roman Empire. It happened again. And it's always very self inflicted that you run up a bunch of debt and you know, you start having societal decay and then all of a sudden things fall apart. So you know, we can see this in our own fiscal foundation. Our debt to GDP is basically at the level of an emerging market and crisis. We have not had that full on crisis yet because we are still the world's reserve and trading currency, but that is you know, coming apart, which I'll talk about in a few moments. And so you know, we were. Running these deficits that are war level deficits. You're close to seven percent of GDP, about double the historic average when we have no war and no recession. And at this point we're paying interest on our debt that exceeds our defense spending, which isn't a great recipe for strength. So you know, countries around the world who rely on the US dollar for trading to get their commodities because food and energy has been pricing dollars are saying this is ridiculous. We need a way around this. And central banks around the world, for more than a decade on net have not been buying treasuries. They've been net selling treasuries, and instead of putting another currency into their reserves, they've been putting gold, and they've been finding ways to trade with each other where if there is a balance of payments that that ends up being settled in gold. So the idea that we have been at the center of the global economy, that that has had cheap financing for our government, that that has supported our dollar and led to a certain standard of living for the US that is changing. And as we're seeing from what's going on in the in the broader scenario with Congress, there's not a big appetite to make a big change there. So we can kind of predictably see that we're going to walk down this path where you know something is going to happen, uh, probably with significant inflation attached to it as the likely outcome. And I don't think Americans, who you know, over the last four years under the Biden administration, saw their their quality of earnings, you know, their affordability be absolutely crushed, are prepared because that's child's play compared to what could be coming down the line. So that's just the first half of it. Any questions before I keep rambling. So that sounds like fun, There's there's more that I want to get into, particularly concerning the debt because there's there's a part of the situation that I believe you and I kind of. Have similar views on in terms of the trick bag that we're kind. Of in with this situation and what you have to do to get out of it. But I'll go back to that in a second. Let's tackle the aipiece of it first. Okay, all right, So that's like a once in an era events that we have this other once in an era events which may or may not happen, but there's certainly enough warnings to be concerned that it might. And that is what AI is going to do with every facet of our lives, whether that be economic, whether that be social, whether that be defense and safety, and so on and so forth. And you know, if you listen to people who have been entrenched in these companies now granted, their tech people, so they have high IQs, but not necessarily high eques, and they don't see the full, you know scenario. But even just the threat of whether it's AI software hardware in the you know form of robots taking a large swath of jobs at one point in time is highly devastating. It's not something that people who are alive today have ever been through, and certainly not in the way where it's like, Okay, well there's a technology, now I need to learn this new thing. You know. The one of the scenarios that's putting out put out there, which is, you know, i'd say more of a possibility than a probability, but that all of a sudden, you know, it's going to be robots doing everything, and then what is it that you're going to do if you know, there's no option for you to be a productive member of society, So that is really frightening, and all of the potential losses of freedoms, you know, things that we saw with COVID, you know, again looking potentially like child's play versus Oh hey, you know, there are these crazy drones that have weapons attached to them. We don't know how to stop them, so we're going to need you all to stay in your houses until we figure it out. I mean, there's that aspect of it, you know, on top of hey, my new best friend is an AI chat bot. I'm dating a robot and everything that we come to know as human beings, you know, really as in potential to rapidly. I mean, this stuff is moving rapidly rapidly, rapidly change in a way that people just aren't prepared for. So that in and of itself again is a just frightening situation. But imagine that at the same time that the global financial order is changing, and it's it's very hard to know exactly what to make of it, other than to warn people that they are not prepared and that they should be spend a lot of time thinking about these things, and you know, pushing you know, the politicians to be proactive, which never happens. Americans are reactive, and so to do something ahead of time, I think is critical because if this does happen, it's going to be too late to address. Yeah, so we're talking with Carol Roth, and that's one of the things. When I saw that, I was like, we definitely have to talk about that, because I'm certain that there are many people in our audience listening to this who they know about AI, they've heard about it, but not there aren't being there aren't many conversations being had about stuff like that because basically, to me, and I said this on Stacey Washington's Serious Exim Show last week, those two things combined, Like, as a Christian, I get very uncomfortable because it sounds like some book of revelation in Times in the Other. World type stuff. It's making me very uncomfortable. I'm very nervous. So the AI thing. I'm extremely concerned about that because to your point, I don't think our politicians are paying attention to this at all. They're most of them are one hundred and five years old, so they don't even know what we're talking about. Nor are they equipped to be able to make, you know, really great strategics correct. And this could be really devastating. And also too and I said this again last week, if you're someone, if you're. A capitalist, I'm a capitalist. If you're a. Capitalist and you are against things like, I don't know, universal basic income stuff like that, the argument against that gets a lot more difficult to make when you're dealing with twenty or thirty or forty percent unemployment. So how do. We even how do we even get people prepared to use the technology in a way that it helps humanity and not make everybody poor? Is there a possibility that we could do it? Okay, So I'm just gonna say, like, I reserve the right to change my mind in the future, because this is very nascent, and I would love to say that I have the ability to save the world from AI right now to Arby, But I'm gonna be the real realistic that we're just all kind of brainstorming and mapping out different scenarios and so you know, we're gonna muddle our way through it. But you know, the way I look at it today is that there are possibilities, and there are probabilities. And there's a time frame. And so the possibility, as I said, is you know, all of a sudden, you end up. With twenty or thirty percent unemployment. You echoed that as well, you get you know, super intelligence, the robots take over everything. You know that we have this you. Know, massive war with bad actors, you know, coming at us from from all sides. I think that the probability is more like displacement of in certain areas and you know, not displacement. In other areas. And this is where I think the AI folks might be missing something, because there is a human factor that is involved in the acceptance. And certainly there are areas like you know, if you're a therapist or you're a consultant, or you're you know, even a coder, where you know, you might be displaced in having to find something else to do. But I also think there are areas where people really want other people to do. The work and the validation for them. And the real world example I use right now are robo advisors. So robo advisors are substitute for financial planners, you know, the wealth managers, who you know, are very hands on and very very much human, and because they charge large fees and and you know, there's a sort of a complexity that goes. Along with that. The prediction was that financial services was going to be completely disrupted. There's going to be no more wealth managers, and everyone was just going to plug in, you know, their hopes and dreams, you know, into a computer program and they. Were going to tell you what to invest in. And that didn't happen. The numbers are anywhere. I've seen anywhere between one and five percent of people use robo advisors. But financial management is thriving because it's a serious thing. People have questions, they want to make sure they're doing it right, they want validation, they want someone to you know, ask a question too. When the market goes sideways. And so that didn't happen, and I think that's probably at least for a good period of time what happens with AI that there are areas you know, yeah, maybe a robot could come in and fix your toilet, but I really want to rob hind her house fixing your Would you rather have a plumber there who may be used some AI to understand the problem, but you know, is going to be there to make sure it's done correctly and if something goes wrong, you're not trying to get the robot back and all those kinds of things. So I think there's probably going to be maybe even a reset between white collar and blue collar and narrowing of the gap because I think a lot of the kind of knowledge workers, as I said, are the ones who are going to be displaced. I think there's going to be a huge. Explosion in small business and entrepreneurship because if you're somebody who's you know, more suited for managerial type of work, you're probably going to gravitate towards entrepreneurship versus trying to retrain yourself as an HVAC technician. That's just the reality. I mean, you might be able to make six figures being a manager at Chick fil a but you know, egos a hell of a thing, and I think that there are a lot of who just won't do that unfortunately, and so they're going to go. So I think that if we were smart about this, we would say we need to reduce barriers for entrepreneurship. We need to make sure that we are investing in training and retraining and to the extent that people are displaced, that they have good training to get more jobs. And I think that we need to be very focused as the AI lobby heats up and make sure that their concerns are being taken care of, because again, they are going to be competing against bad actors around the world, and we want to be in the driver's seat here that we also are protecting individual rights and individual freedoms at the same time. And so those are the things that I would like for people to be really worked up about and to be you know, pushing politicians and crafting ideas and throwing those forward and trying to get all of that worked out. Now do I think that's actually gonna happen. No, Why we're having this conversation to change hearts and minds. Right right right, We're talking with new York Times bestselling author Carol Roth. Now, let's go to the debt, and that's obviously a big topic of conversation right now. I have these mixed emotions about this entire process. On the one hand, to me, those could have been as simple as just saying, hey, go back to the budget that was pre COVID. And I believe, like I've seen in some places that said, if we just went back to the pre COVID budget, we'd be in a surplus. So over half a trillion dollars. You probably saw me talk about that last week. Yes, oh my goodness. So like to me, I think that would would have been the easiest approach. And I understand, you know, Indulgen's goals and things like that. But the way the way that on the one hand, the way that they approached trying to do the things that they were trying to do, was so politically untenable that it may cutting in general, not workable in this political cycle. And you do have that consideration to think about. You do have to think about how the voters will react to what you're doing. So I think that's that's the one thing. On the one hand, On the other hand, I do believe that we have to get this debt under control. But on the other other hand, I don't know if we can cut I don't believe that we could cut our way out of this. I think we have to be very aggressive about growth, and you and I have talked about this before, which while I'm bringing this up, where we have to be aggressive about growth and then try to ease out of the spending because if you just cut it dramatically without without growth, that sounds really good to people on Twitter, but you'll tank the economy. So where So where you at on this for people who may not have heard our previous interview, just kind of give your thoughts on the trick bag that we're in right now and what we need to do to try to maneuver out of it in the least painful in the most least painful way. Oh boy, well, I'm glad to have your conversation, have this conversation with you so we can go into nuance, because it is very difficult to communicate these things in a post, in an article. You know, just kind of one office is a very difficult situation that's been built up over time and you know, just completely untenable and unsustainable. So we have a number of different thing is going on. And I'm going to say my biggest criticism that I think would have fixed this all and maybe still does fix this all, d'arvo is communication. I think the communication of a plan, if there is one, has been abysmal. And if you explain to people what it is you're doing and the steps you're taking and why they have to be done in a certain order, people can get behind it and it doesn't look like you're ignoring their concerns. But there has been a lot of mixed messaging, a lot of you know, pie in the sky things that are untenable, and a lot of things that have been ignored. And I think you know this, this starts to you. Any relationship, whether it's you know, personal, professional, or between politicians and voters, it needs to have good communication. And so if I were in charge, which which i'm not, but if I was, the first thing I. Would have done out of the gate is I would have, you know, does in on deregulation and trying to codify the tax cuts, and I would have communicated just as you said, that look, we're we've been given a really bad lot here and we need to make sure that the deficit you know, isn't exploded in terms of the GDP in order to make sure we don't you sink the ship while we're trying to turn it around. And so if by doing that, we're going to supercharge growth and it's going to give us, you know, the flexibility to go. In and make cuts. And I think that people hearing that could go, Okay, that makes sense. And then you say, okay, we're going to take the doge cuts and the low hanging fruit, waste, waste, abuse, fraud, things that are sent you know, overseas that actually aren't contributing to our GDP or the low hanging fruit that isn't going to by cutting it, you know, send the GDP you know, into a tailspin where it's going to complete blow up our efforts. So we're going to do that right out of the gate. And then we're going to take these doge cuts and we're going to put a time frame on them, and we're going to say we're going to do them, but this is how we're going to do them, in a way that they're phased in over the next few years. So again we're not taking this massive hit to GDP while we're trying to grow our way out. Of this problem. And I think that's what the right approach to this problem in the short term. The bigger issue is that. Something needs to be done, something needs to be put in place to reign in Congress in the long term, and I'm hearing exactly the opposite, right, I'm hearing from Trump that he's in an agreement with Elizabeth Warden Warren for Christ's sake, and that he wants to remove the debt ceiling, which, on one hand, you know, has never worked. It's been raised like one hundred times and blown past, so it's not an effective tool. But what is it that you're going to put in its place to reign in Congress? Because anything that we're doing here, if there isn't a limit or on Congress going forward, and none of this matters, we're just going to be back in the same place and any of the other creative things that the administration may have to do in order to maybe get the interest rate down on our debt, because you know, as I said, that's a killer. We're spending more on interest than we are spending on defense, and it's on a trajectory to be our largest expense item, which is just you know, completely you know, untenable for the United States and its fiscal foundation. So if they're going to do something. The release valve for whatever it is they're going to do, and I can come up with all different kinds of scenarios from fed QI to writing up gold to you know, so on and so forth, all of those things are going to be inflationary. And if we're going to have to take another inflationary hit and see that you know, start to move back up again again, there needs to be a really clear explanation of why it's being done and a really clear rain on Congress to say this is never going to happen again, and we're doing this as a one time fix and we know it's going to be painful, but we're going to make it out the other side stronger and again, kind of like our other discussion, there is a clear path, there is something that makes sense. But do we have the political will to get this done? You know, that is where this all falls apart in my you know, unfortunately very common sense and realistic minds, and you know, I don't see us going down that path. But that would be the way. To do it well. And I think too, going back to the issue of the communication part, that is what makes some of this politically untenable because at the end of the day, you're asking folks the the way that this has been messaged and and really, in my view, some of the execution as well, has been really really It's like it's like some folks went in and said, let's do this the most politically painful way we can possibly do, Like let's let's try to cut stuff that we know isn't going to be popular, and let's do that first. Like that's that's a really bad idea if you're trying to get political support from the voters to accomplish what you're trying to accomplish. And I think part of that. Is to your point earlier, when you have people who have high IQs but low eqs, that becomes a problem because. In this realm, though in this realm, I'm not even sure we have the high IQs. So that's true, that's true, but it becomes a problem you have to like people say, oh, it shouldn't be about politics. They're politicians, like it's in the name, and they answer to the voters, so you have to you can't lose the voters. And I see this happen multiple times. I see it in democratic administration's Republican administrations, where they'll believe in there's something that they want to do, whether it's right or wrong, good or bad, and they believe in it so strongly that they don't think they have to bring the voters the people along with them, that they just try to force it through and that never works. What ends up happening usually is you get your butt kicked and it scares everybody else away. Now they don't want to touch it at all. And I think that's the situation that we're in with. Yeah, we got a debt problem, and we got to figure it out, but I think that in some ways the Doe's roll out has been so. Bad that now. It's made it politically untenable and people don't have the will to do anything well. I would also say, if you want to throw execution errors, I would also talk about the tariffs, because the execution and roll out of that and the timing and choreography given everything. Else we have to do, made not a lot of sense. And to this day we're still struggling through it, and there's still twenty different explanations of why it is that we're doing what it is that we're doing, you know, nineteen of which, of course are going to be proven wrong and conflict with each other. And then you know, the DOGE. I feel like they had a mandate for DOGE, but I agree that to say, okay, we've identified these things, and then here's why we can't cut this all overnight. Here's why we have to phase it in, and here's you know, how we're tearing this and why we think this is the right way to do it is such a simple leap to make, Like all you have to do is have a press conference. President Trump loves to talk to people. People love to hear from President Trump's all you gotta do is load up this plan and a teleprompter and he's gonna. Sell it because that is what he does. He is and I don't think that the people around him have done him, you know, any favors by you know, kind of all of these different ideas coming in different directions, and you know, this lack of clarity of hey, we really have a grasp of what's going on. This is a really serious situation. You might not agree with how we're going about this, but let me tell you why there's a plan. There's a reason, and here's why we think it's gonna work and it's gonna benefit you. I think the people you know, like myself. Like others, who are really focused on getting down that spending over time, that's what you want to hear. You want to hear that there actually is a plan, not that Hey, we've identified all of this stuff and it was just like a sideshow to the main circus to keep you distracted while we do what we always do and pass this bill that's just going to continue to pop up the data. I'd like for someone to, in a very clear, sesame street sort of way, just walk us through, here's the plan. And I think people will give the time and the flexibility for the plan if they know what it is and how long it's expected to take. And you can see those milestones being reached along the way and that hasn't happened, and coming out of the gate and not tackling you know, the making taxes permanent and deregulation and things that you know, lower barriers and leash growth right out of the gate and instead getting you know, mired in this tariff nonsense was just an unforced error that I think everything else has kind of fallen from in terms of the lousy commun munication. So I do think there potentially again. Is a window here that that could be righted and go okay, you know, I know, I know you all didn't like this. Here's you know, here's let us communicate this going forward. But I don't think there is a a fully open window. This cannot go on for too much longer. At some point, credibility is going to be lost. There's going to be even more infighting, and at the end of the day, anything that is good, that's done, it's not going to matter, and it's gonna end up handicapping, you know, the ability to do anything else. And you know, the midterms are going to be a disaster. So uh, it's it's it's it's it's tough being on the side when it's so obvious what needs to be done and just watching, you know, the fumble happen on the on the one yard. Line, it just kills me. We're talking with Carol Roth, we have a few minutes left, and you brought up the next thing. I was going to tackle and that is terrifs. Well, yeah, yeah, the same thing. Because I again, and you and I have had this conversation probably again. This is another one of those things that is frustrating to me because I am not anti terriff, and I do believe that there are some situations where we should have teriffs, where we should have things in place to protect, particularly things that we need for like life sustaining, health sustaining, and in our own defense. We shouldn't have to be depending I think when COVID happened and we learned, like I remember that people didn't have at the beginning, we didn't have enough tests because you need the cotton swabs for the tests, and we were getting the cotton from that goes into cotton swaps from China. That's stupid. We shouldn't be in that situation, or when people were having a hard time getting pharmaceutical drugs because the some of the ingredients for those drugs were made by Like, you should not be dependent upon your biggest adversary for your light to sustain your life or your health. But the tariff strategy in general overall to me seemed like it was very scatterbrain and I don't know what the goal was now for me, if you're I'm willing to go with you beyond what I just mentioned the qualifiers I just mentioned, I'm willing to go with you on tariffs if the goal is to get everybody to lower their barriers, which is what I thought the goal either was or it should be, because we should want American companies to be able to have the same amount of freedom and access to other markets as other markets have to us. I am all for that, but it don't seem like that is the. Actual goal through this. So what is the plan, what is the strategy? What is the point? Nobody knows. And that's the problem because you cannot say, well, we're trying to make great deals so that we all have free and fair trade at the same time saying, oh, tariffs are going to pay for your income tax, like you got to pick one, you know, if you want to have one or the other, you can make an argument, we can debate that, but you can't have every strategy that are you know, and again when they're in conflict with each other. So I'm with you. I think that this was, as I said. Just an unforced error, a massive fumble. Just yes, if we have places where there is a really big issue in terms of rare earth minerals, in terms of shipbuilding, our national defense, pharmaceuticals, things that keep us safe, like, yes, focus on that, and if you need to put a tariff on those specific things, that's great. But this idea of us having a trade deficit and that it being a problem at all, let alone a bigger problem than our national deficit, is a head scratcher. And unfortunately, since we have a fairly financially illiterate population, my guess is that people are just complaining the two that they think that the national deficit and the trade deficit are the same thing, or you know, inexplicably related, when they are not, and they're just you know, certain places where you know, I keep laughing about Vietnam. You know Vietnam people on you know, their median salary there per year is like four thousand dollars. It's like, we have a trade deficit with Vietnam. It's like, okay, well you're going to sell them more four to one fifty trucks when they make four thousand dollars a year, Like, what how do you think that works? I just I just I don't know, I don't know. People don't have no idea what they're talking about. But at any rate, again, so coming out of the gate and you're trying to super charge the economy, why is this even in the discussion at this point. You've now put up barriers. I mean, you had businesses when you know the one hundred and forty five percent tarifs from China on that just stopped doing business because that's not a tariff, that's an embargo. You cannot do business when your cost of goods is now at one hundred and forty five percent of what it was previously. So it's just the whole thing made no sense. It continues to make no sense. The endgame I've predicted all along is just going to be something that is marginally better and maybe and that we declare this massive victory with a huge cost associated And I'm not poopooing. That we have big issues. I mean, we have issues with China stealing our intellectual property. But going back to communication again, you've the most charming negotiator in the world sitting at mar Lago, Like, why are you not inviting people over for dinner and showing them a good time, and you know, patting them on the back and charming their pants off and cutting deals and only using the threats after all of that hasn't worked because I feel like in most of the scenarios, President Trump, you know you're gonna go, Okay, this's great, Yes, let's do this, that we didn't have to go through throwing US companies and consumers under the bus in order to get something done. It didn't need to be done now, It didn't need to be done as the first step. In a strategy. I just don't understand. And again people may be saying, well, what do you know, Carol. Did you go to Wharton like Donald Trump? Yes? I did. Are you a deal maker like Donald Trump? Well, yes, I've done billions of dollars worth of transactions, thank you? So is that like I don't know what I'm talking about in this domain? And no I'm not Donald Trump, but I don't have his bank account. But you know, I'm doing pretty well here. And as a strategic thinker, it's just like strategy and problem solving is like, you know, center the plate to me, and there just seems to be so many more obvious ways and I feel like there are just too many voices, you know, in and around the administration that you have an agenda but maybe only understand that piece and don't understand how it relates to everything else. And I just again think this was a big mistake that they can get out of. And you know, if you don't care that they call Trump Taco, then you know Trump always, you know, caves or whatever it is, like it chickens out. You know, as long as you don't care about that and you care about actually fixing our fiscal problems, there is a way forward here. But we have a very narrow window, very narrow. And lastly, to that point, there was one thing that you said, and I think you said this publicly and I believe you said it on our last interview as well, and this was at the very beginning of the administration, as the administration was being built out, and you kind of flagged one of your concerns was that there wasn't enough people who understood small businesses in particular that was in the inner circle of the administration. And I think we've kind of seen that play out because, like to your point about the kind of contradictory helter skelter nature of some of the things that they do where you have one thing that they're trying to do and then you have another thing that cancels. Out the other thing. We've seen that often, and when you're in the situation that we're in and you need the economy to get juiced up, I've seen things that has negatively impacted small businesses in general, that have negatively impacted minority owned businesses in particular, that have negative negatively impacted all of the pieces that you really need if you're going to try to pull off, to pull the rabbit out of the hat and grow your way out of this. So, if you were talking to the administration on a small business conversation, what what's the one or two things that you would tell them they absolutely either need to do or need to stop doing in order to get growth at the level that we needed to, particularly with small businesses, because the small businesses are the engine of our economy. They are. I mean, there's thirty five million of them. And if you go back to the beginning of our conversation and believe that AI may trend in that direction, I think we're going to have a lot more and Main Street elected Trump. They were very optimistic, and unfortunately, if you look at the optimism index from NFIB and other places, small business optimism has come cratering down in the last couple of months because they thought they were going to get government out of the way, and instead they got more barriers. So what I would tell the Trump administration is that they need to have a small business perspective on every single. Thing that they're doing. And at the end of the day, you have to ask yourself, is does this create more barriers and a non level playing field for main Street? Because this administration from Scott Beston, Treasury Secretary to Trump, has said we want to be main Street first, and that Wall Street has had its turn and it's now main Street's turn. But a lot of the things. That they've done haven't followed what it is that they've said that their goals are. And I think that that's a really smart goal and a way to continue to move this engine forward in a very decentralized manner, in a way that supports freedom, in a way that's going to benefit the economy and hope fully help. In any way that we can with this debt problem. So you know, when you do something like tariffs you have to ask yourself, Okay, what does this mean for small business? And small business is super complicated because you, as I said, thirty five million, they're all in different industries and geographies and whatnot. So there are some small businesses that are in US manufacturing that probably benefited greatly from the tariffs, but that is a very small piece of what small businesses are. And there are all the small businesses that have part of their supply chains that are abroad, which again doesn't mean that they're a Chinese company. They're still supporting US jobs here and revenue and profit here in the United States, but that don't have options to do their business at a cost that a customer would actually purchase from them. You don't want to create that barrier. But instead we heard, well, you know, so and so is going to get. Two dollars for Christmas. Like what are you talking talking about? Like that's not a freedom, pro business, pro small business, you know, pro anything talking point. That's like a communistic talking point. So if I were in the room, I would say you need to have a council of people and you need to be running everything by them and saying what is the impact on main street because at the end of the day, as I talk to small businesses across this country, nobody wants special treatment. They just don't want barriers. And every barrier that the government erects is more difficult and unwieldy for a small business to handle because they don't have the balance sheets, and they don't have the legal departments, and they don't have the resources to be able to do it. When I see that Apple that has tens of billions of dollars in cash on its balance sheet and is looking to do massive buybacks, is getting an exemption from tariffs at a time when small businesses weren't exempt, you have to ask, like, who's running that policy, and how is that main Street? First, So you know, let's go back to what your policy that you said, you know, you wanted to have, which was main Street gets a chance, and let's get people at the table that can point these things out to you, because I don't think that they're necessarily doing them intentionally. There's just nobody who's actually thinking about this stuff and bringing it up and raising a hand going oh, hey, by the way, guys, you know thirty five million small businesses, let's talk about them. Let everybody know how to follow you and keep over what you got going on. All right, Well, I have a free economic newsletter and we talk about things like this and you get into the weeds at Carolroth dot com slash news, and I am on all the very social media at Carol JS Roth and latest book is You Will Own Nothing. And I think you can see from this discussion, uh where I was going with that. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. It's never a pleasure to talk about the stuff that we talk about, but it's always. A pleasure to talk to you. Thank you for coming on the show and being our first guest on the radio. My friends, Well, congratulations again, and hopefully, uh maybe the Cleveland Browns and the Chicago Bears will have a really good start to the season this year. We can come on, we can talk football instead. Yes, that would be beautiful. Thank you, my friend. Thank you. Stay tuned. We have Tea Tom with a Roll coming up next here on the Outlaws. Turn it Uppectation, the latest celebrity news and gossipation. It's Tea Time with Row on the Outlaws Radio show. All right, y'all, so this is crazy. This is a crazy, crazy topic. Okay, this is something that we often talk about. I think we've talked about a lot in the past where it comes to just abuse of a man or abuse of a woman, and we've talked about that quite a bit. So this topic is actually about DDG and Hallie Bailey. So they split up some time ago. I think DDG might be a rapper or something of the sort. I didn't know who he was until they got together. But Halle Bailey is an R and B singer. Hallie Bailey is an R and B singer, and they had a baby together, and well it's suddenly become very toxic, and allegedly he started putting his hands on her and she was cheating on her. I think with La La, I think that's her name. Don't come after me if I finally say right, But he was cheating on her with Laala in a whole different state or something of the sort. And that's kind of where the problems kind of started. So and turns out Hallie Baiby also was being abusive after having the baby, like she had postpartum and that that's also another thing you know with women, you know, when we have a child, that kind of just happens. Our body just kind of does that. But she also may be dealing with. Some other mental health issues allegedly, I don't know, by stating she picked up a gun at one point and took it from him, and so she was making threats with the gun, and also recently she said that he put she put he put his hands on her. Now she's talking about taking the baby and leaving the country, and he's trying to file to take custody, soul, custody of the baby. And it's just like a. Big old mess. It's it's just all over the place, and I just it's I'm gonna just say. My opinion on it. My opinion on it is one obviously everybody they're young, but everybody should know is the first thing you don't do is put your business, your relationship out on social media. And that's really what they've been doing. And it's everybody's having opinions on it. Oh, Hallie Bailey's in the right, Halle Bailey's in the right, And a lot of I see guys that have issues with it, and they say, oh, women automatically want to take the woman's side and say, oh, she's. In the right. He's in the wrong, he did this and that, but I guess he hit her at one point and allegedly chipped her tooth. And it's just been a back and forth, abusive type of relationship. And it's just like, where does it stop. And the thing is, it's like, you can't. He's coming after her right now for the custody. But the thing is is you you you're stating all these things about her. But we all know how this works. You cannot accuse somebody in the courtroom or at all unless you have physical proof. Otherwise it's your say against her say, and that's really all you got. So I'll say this from what I've seen in the story, a couple of things. One the timeline, a lot of women were like, well, we're trying to excuse her alleged poor behavior by saying by using the postpartum depression as an excuse. Well, the problem with that is when you look at the text messages that were released, a lot of that was prior to her getting pregnant, So that shows a different kind of pattern. And when we have a conversation about abuse and whether it's an abusive relationship, this. Sounds to me. I don't know who hit who first. I'll just put that out there. So to me, it's not about one side or the other. To me, this sounds like a mutually top relationship. This sounds like two people who are abusing each other depending on the time and whose person and which one was at the other end of the fist or the hand or or what have you. Some of the things that was allegedly said on those text messages are absolutely concerning. And the problem I think that I have with the whole. Thing is. There's too many people looking to make excuses for bad behavior instead of saying, look, from what we know, and we don't know much because we weren't there, but from what we know, it looks like both of them abused each other. And I don't think people are ready to have that conversation because I do believe that there is still a bias against the idea that men can be abused. People just don't believe it. A lot of people don't believe it. A lot of women and some men refuse to accept the idea that a man can be abused. And I think obviously we're seeing a lot of hypocrisy in this conversation on both sides in my view, and to me, the fundamental issue is that it looks to me like this is a mutually toxic relationship and both of them abused each other. Dante your thoughts, Yeah, That's. What I was about to say too. I think it really sounds to me like two people that should not have been together were together. They exasperated the situation by having a kid together, and of course that didn't save their situation and probably just made it worse. And they need to be a part because it seems to me like they were just way too toxic for each other. Once you get to the point in a relationship. Whereas he said, she said, in terms of abuse, that means you probably got a whole lot. Of wrong on both sides, and it's not one side. One side is clearly in the wrong and the other side is clearly the victim. Now you probably got both sides are abuses, and both sides are victims. And. It would have been better for that couple not to have ever been together, basically is what I gather. So I don't know where it goes from here, but I. Kind of feel bad for a child, and you just really hope that they can in some way be able to co parent, Like can they get past this and figure out how to co parent? Because that's really all this should be about at this point, right, Like to me, it like you guys should not have been together. You guys, please don't ever think about getting back together. You're too toxic for each other. Please honestly, don't even get in another separate relationship because y'all gotta work on yourselves obviously, But are y'all able to co parent and just put each other's egos to side and just do what's best for you'all child? That's really what this should be about in my opinion. Right right, Well, I'll just give a few little more details on that, and that's really all I will have. I'll just let you know. It does say that the mom accused Halle Bailey of tracking him with air tags. Hallie Bailey said her mental health is under control and DDG and calls DDG out for the embellishing. And the custody case. These are just a few. Of the things. That's just some of the things that's going on. I definitely agree with you, guys. I mean, it's I don't know, I think is too many toxic relationships, too many toxic relationships, and it's if you cannot keep your hands to yourself, that right there alone should just tell you this is not gonna work, and there needs to be found a middle ground, even if that means having to have somebody there when you guys are doing the whole co parenting thing, like if you have to have a middleman transitioning the child from mom mom to dad or dad mom, there has to be something that they have to be able to work that out. All right. Next, Oh well, so I can actually talk about this. So Cardi B an offset, So Cardi are offset fires off at Cardi B forgetting their son's hair braided exactly like Stefan Diggs. That literally exactly looks like his hair, and that that was very petty. That was very petty of her. But I mean, his hair. Does look cute. I'm not gonna lie, But like you know, I mean, how would. You guys feel if you had a child with somebody and they were mocking your son's hair from the man that they were dating. Dante. I'll let you take this her. I wouldn't be in that situation. Let's just say let's let's just say let's just say, hypothetically, let's just say just if you were Let's say, if you were in that position, how would you feel about that? I couldn't you know why Darvy and I could speak for Darby and say he wouldn't be in this situation because he wouldn't date, nor would I a woman like Cardi B. He also probably wouldn't cheat on his on his you know, on his baby mom or his wife they were buried. Actually, yeah, like all sat was doing so another couple that probably shouldn't have been together. But yeah, I'm telling you, I think Offset man, he probably you know, it's not really even a loss like she probably they probably thought the hairstyle was cute, just decided like, oh yeah, my son would like this. He probably nothing wrong with it. I think he probably a little salty that you know, this guy is uh this football player done done, scooped up his girl or so that's probably why he really mad, But who cares? Let me ask you all this. Do you feel and this is kind of off topic, but mega quick, do you feel that Cardi B came up more because she started dating Offset? Or do you know they were both they were both mutually famous, so. Oh okay, I was gonna say it was a bigger star between them. Well, now she's worth more than him. But that's a different question though than who's the bigger star. Oh well, I feel like she might be more recognizable to like the average person or the or recognizable to the average person. Maybe that just stems from the fact that All said started his career as in a group. Yeah. Possibly, But like I feel like, and this is just you know, this is with no information. I haven't studied at all. I feel like Cardi was always kind of more famous than Offset. But that's just that's just a guess. All right. So we are running short on time because of the interview today, so we're gonna go to break. We're gonna go to Dante's hot takes. All three of us have have some thoughts on what the hot takes are for the day, so we're gonna get to that. Stay tuned, we'll be right back. You're listening to the Outlaws, yo, what's up bringing the noise right here? Chuck, Republic enemy number one. You are tuning the Outlaws radio. Show telling the truth. Whether you like it or not, it's Dante's hot takes on the yet Lawns radio show. So based on last segment we talked about two celebrity couples that couldn't be together because they were just too toxic. Well, now we have a political union that has been fractured with Trump. President Trump and Elon Musk basically not only ending their political romance but also deciding to go at each other in a Twitter k that social because of the really big beautiful bill that Trump got through the House. So, as you know, Elon left his position at DOGE and has been outspoken since his split with the President over the big Beautiful bill, which does have some merit, but it will cause maybe four maybe maybe up to four trillion dollars added adding that to the deficit. And as you know, Elon was very outspoken about shrinking government spending, shrinking the deficit because he says it is unsustainable. So I thought today was just a really bad day for both Elon and MAGA. Just a bid on Elon's side, a group of his shareholders is supposed to be meeting here pretty soon to see how to discuss how his behavior potentially impacts his companies. You know, Tesla was down about seventeen percent today. It was one of the worst days in recent memory for that company. Trump has, you know, put out on truth Social that maybe he should if we really want, if the government really wants to save money, that maybe we should cancel all of Elon's h the subsidies for his for his contract for his government contracts through his businesses. This is just a really bad thing overall for the Trump administration and also for Elon. Obviously the consequences like we already talked about with Elon's companies, but also with Trump. I mean, this is a huge fraction or a huge fracture in but with with the guy who many people believe helped him the most get to the White House. So I'm interested to see how this plays out. I don't think this goes well for either side. But I do think that Trump, because of his current position as the president, does have the upper hand right now. So I am watching this and I'm sitting there eating popcorn because I'm like, if you follow me on social media at Dita King Ben, I've told you, I told you a long time ago that Elon ain't who people think he is. And I've had a number of issues with many of the things that Elon said and done, particularly the racist stuff, because he's said and done and retweeted and re shared a lot of racist stuff. And also he this, I'm not surprised. This is who he is. He didn't like something that Trump did he and he didn't like that he wasn't getting his way and it being changed, and so when Trump pushed back, he behaved. Elon behaved like a petulant child. That's what he does. This isn't new, And like I said, I've been very critical of Elon in the past on social media because of the way that he behaves. This, ay, this ain't new, so to me, I don't know what people expected. Of course, you were going to have when you got two egos like that, Eventually they were going to clash. I'm not surprised, but my view was just it is what a TI is. Robin, What did you think of all of the back and forth. I think I just found out today. I didn't realize there was a cat fight. Okay, I must have been under living under our rock, because when I seen that today, I'm. Like, oh, like that. That's some tea right there. Like I was so excited, but then I found out I've been completely out of the loop. But I think this is a lot there's a lot of things going on within this situation. I mean they're throwing one another up under the bus with a lot of things. I can definitely say that a lot of dirt when I was reading things, even though a lot of the things. We already suspected. But it's like, come on now, like don't don't like beat around the bush, tell us what it is for real, tell us, come on, tell us. You know got my glass. I'm listening, you know hear that. I will say this. I saw one one tweet that was very entertaining to me. It said, this is the Republican's version of Drake versus Kendrick. That's hilarious. So we'll see what happens next. Dante. Let him know how to follow you, sir. Follow me on Instagram and Twitter at T bride t A. E b r y E Miss O'Malley. Follow me on Instagram at real Robin O'Malley and Facebook at Robin O'Malley. And you can follow me at D D King Penn Area where its D T H E K I N G P I N. One more time, thank you to Carol Rof for coming on the show, we are out of here. We'll see you next week. Per. This was produced by CIP
