[00:00:00] This is the FCB Podcast Network Great faces when they drop y'all, food chain says top dog, we don't listen to y'all, this is The Outlaws, we don't listen to y'all, tune in, it's the charge for The Outlaws
[00:00:30] Welcome to The Outlaws, this is Darvio DeKing Pinmaro alongside Robin O'Malley and Dante Bry Don't forget to like us on Facebook at facebook.com slash The Outlaws Radio Follow us on x and instagram at The Outlaws Radio We have a packed show, we're short on time, but real quick, Ms. O'Malley, how are you? I'm doing real good, I'm doing real good, Darvio actually almost died this week
[00:00:57] I taught my son for the first time how to drive and he almost drove us through a grass wall So we had to go with just use the brake and no gas pedal Alright, sounds like fun stuff there, Robin's gonna get a bunch of grey hairs by the time he get his license Dante, how you doing sir? I am good, I am good, I wish our weather would make up his mind
[00:01:23] And also, Robin, you're supposed to take him to an empty parking lot It was, it wasn't Oh, we got some real problems with just how he hit a wall in the empty park How he almost hit a wall in the empty parking lot Because I said look forward, I said forward, look forward And immediately his vote went vroom And we went forward And my mom was in the backseat by the way Oh my goodness
[00:01:51] Alright, so on that note, we have a very special interview that we're gonna get to right now We have a very special guest on the show today She is a New York Times best-selling author The author of You Will Own Nothing My dear friend, Carol Roth Welcome back, how are you doing? It's always a good day when I'm with you, my friends Although once we get talking, I'm not sure how good the day is going to be
[00:02:20] But it's a good start to the day with us together Absolutely, absolutely So, here we go There's a tweet that you made two days ago that I bookmarked Because I'm like, we definitely need to talk about this And one of the things I love about your commentary is that You have a great way of taking these big concepts And breaking it down for the average person
[00:02:49] And so, we definitely gotta tackle this Because I wanna make sure that our listeners are aware And also, by the way, you are our first guest Since we've been on the radio on 95.9 FM in Cleveland Hey! I love that! And congratulations Well deserved and a long time coming to you Thank you, I appreciate that So, for the tweet that you sent on June 3rd
[00:03:19] It said, Americans are not prepared for a double supernova We are on the precipice of a reset of the global financial order And we are on the cusp of a possible tech upheaval via AI Americans having to deal with one of those is a once-in-a-lifetime shock Both is unfathomable Now, that sounds terrifying, number one Number two, break that down for me
[00:03:45] All right, so just a little bit of street cred that I actually know what I'm talking about Because there are so many people floating in the media Not that they would come on your show But in other places, you know, I have been in finance In economic commentary, you know, around these concepts for more than three decades So, you know, I actually am coming from this from a general place of understanding And if you read You Will Know Nothing or my other books You can see me kind of laying out the thesis that leads up to this
[00:04:14] So, basically, I've been trying to come up with a name for this very unusual And I put in the tweet once-in-a-lifetime event But it's not even in a lifetime It's like once-in-an-era events That now we have potentially two to contend with So, the first is the changing of the global financial order And I think that's the one that people maybe have a little bit of a better understanding That we have been in the United States at the center of the global financial economy
[00:04:43] For around 80 years And that, you know, we're getting a little long in the tooth And it is not an unusual thing that the global financial order shifts When the entity in the center of it gets a little long in the tooth You know, it happened before us to the English And before them, it was the Dutch You go back to the Roman Empire It happened again And it's always very self-inflicted That you run up a bunch of debts
[00:05:10] And, you know, you start having societal decay And then all of a sudden things fall apart So, you know, we can see this in our own fiscal foundation Our debt to GDP is basically at the level of an emerging market in crisis We have not had that full-on crisis yet Because we are still the world's reserve and trading currency But that is, you know, coming apart Which I'll talk about in a few moments
[00:05:40] And so, you know, we're running these deficits that are war-level deficits You know, close to 7% of GDP About double the historic average When we have no war and no recession And at this point, we're paying interest on our debt That exceeds our defense spending Which isn't a great recipe for strength So, you know, countries around the world Who rely on the U.S. dollar for trading To get their commodities
[00:06:09] Because food and energy has been priced in dollars Are saying, this is ridiculous We need a way around this And central banks around the world for more than a decade on net Have not been buying treasuries They've been net selling treasuries And instead of putting another currency into their reserves They've been putting gold And they've been finding ways to trade with each other Where if there is a balance of payments That that ends up being settled in gold
[00:06:38] So, the idea that we have been, you know, at the center of the global economy That that has had cheap financing for our government That that has supported our dollar And led to a certain standard of living for the U.S. You know, that is changing And as we're seeing from what's going on You know, in the broader scenario with Congress There's not a big appetite to make a big change there
[00:07:06] So we can kind of predictably see that we're going to walk down this path Where, you know, something is going to happen Probably with significant inflation attached to it As the likely outcome And I don't think Americans who, you know, over the last four years Under the Biden administration Saw their quality of earnings You know, their affordability Be absolutely crushed
[00:07:35] Are prepared because that's child's play Compared to what could be coming down the line So that's just the first half of it Any questions before I keep rambling? So, that sounds like fun There's more that I want to get into Particularly concerning the debt Because there's a part of the situation That I believe you and I kind of have similar views on
[00:08:04] In terms of the trick bag that we're kind of in With this situation And what you have to do to get out of it But I'll go back to that in a second Let's tackle the AI piece of it first Okay, all right So that's like a once in an era event Then we have this other once in an era event Which may or may not happen But, you know, there's certainly enough warnings To be concerned that it might
[00:08:33] And that is what AI is going to do With every facet of our lives Whether that be economic Whether that be social Whether that be defense and safety And so on and so forth And, you know, if you listen to people Who have been entrenched in these companies Now, granted, they're tech people So they have high IQs But not necessarily high EQs And they don't see the full, you know, scenario Right
[00:09:01] But even just the threat of Whether it's AI software, hardware In the, you know, form of robots Taking a large swath of jobs At one point in time Is highly devastating It's not something that people who are alive today Have ever been through And certainly not in the way Where it's like, okay, well, there's a technology And now I need to learn this new thing You know, the one of the scenarios
[00:09:31] That's putting out there Which is, you know, I'd say More of a possibility than a probability But that all of a sudden You know, it's going to be robots Doing everything And then what is it that you're going to do If, you know, there's no option for you To be a productive member of society So that is really frightening And all of the potential losses of freedoms You know, things that we saw with COVID
[00:09:58] You know, again, looking potentially like child's play Versus, oh, hey, you know, there are these crazy drones That have weapons attached to them We don't know how to stop them So we're going to need you all to stay in your houses Until we figure it out I mean, there's that aspect of it You know, on top of Hey, my new best friend is an AI chat bot I'm dating a robot And everything that we've come to know as human beings
[00:10:27] You know, really is in potential to rapidly I mean, this stuff is moving rapidly Rapidly, rapidly change in a way That people just aren't prepared for So that in and of itself, again Is a just frightening situation But imagine that at the same time That the global financial order is changing And it's very hard to know exactly what to make of it
[00:10:54] Other than to warn people that they are not prepared And that they should be spending a lot of time Thinking about these things And, you know, pushing, you know The politicians to be proactive Which never happens Americans are reactive And so to do something ahead of time I think is critical Because if this does happen It's going to be too late to address Yeah, so we're talking with Carol Roth
[00:11:22] And that's one of the things When I saw that I was like We definitely have to talk about that Because I'm certain That there are many people in our audience Listening to this Who they know about AI They've heard about it But there aren't many conversations being had About stuff like that Because basically to me And I said this on Stacey Washington's SiriusXM show last week Those two things combined
[00:11:51] Like, as a Christian I get very uncomfortable Because that sounds like some Book of Revelation End times End of the world type stuff It's making me very uncomfortable I'm very nervous So, the AI thing I'm extremely concerned about that Because to your point I don't think our politicians Are paying attention to this At all They're
[00:12:20] Most of them are 105 years old So they don't even know What we're talking about Right, nor are they equipped To be able to make You know, really great strategic decisions Correct And this could be really devastating And also too And I said this again last week If you're someone If you're a capitalist I'm a capitalist If you're a capitalist And you are against things like I don't know Universal basic income Stuff like that
[00:12:50] The argument against that Gets a lot more difficult to make When you're dealing with 20 or 30 or 40% unemployment So, how do we even How do we even get people prepared To use the technology in a way That it helps humanity And not make everybody poor Is there a possibility That we could do that? Okay, so I'm just gonna say
[00:13:18] Like I reserve the right To change my mind in the future Because this is very nascent And I would love to say That I have the ability To save the world from AI right now, Darby But I'm gonna be real realistic That we're just all kind of Brainstorming and mapping out Different scenarios And so, you know We're gonna muddle our way through it But, you know The way I look at it today Is that there are possibilities And there are probabilities And there's a timeframe And so, the possibility
[00:13:48] As I said Is, you know, all of a sudden You end up with 20 or 30% unemployment You echoed that as well You get, you know, super intelligence The robots take over everything You know, that we have this You know, massive war With bad actors, you know Coming at us from all sides I think that the probability Is more like displacement In certain areas And, you know, not displacement
[00:14:17] In other areas And this is where I think The AI folks might be missing something Because there is a human factor That is involved in the acceptance And certainly there are areas like You know, if you're a therapist Or you're a consultant Or you're, you know Even a coder Where, you know, you might be Displaced and having to find Something else to do But I also think there are areas
[00:14:45] Where people really want other people To do the work And the validation for them And the real world example I use right now Are robo-advisors So robo-advisors Are a substitute For financial planners You know, the wealth managers Who, you know, are very hands-on And very, very much human And because they charge large fees And, you know, there's a sort of a complexity That goes along with that The prediction was
[00:15:13] That financial services Was going to be completely disrupted There's going to be No more wealth managers And everyone was just going to plug in You know, their hopes and dreams You know, into a computer program And they were going to tell you What to invest in And that didn't happen The numbers are anywhere I've seen anywhere between 1 and 5% of people Use robo-advisors But financial management is thriving Because it's a serious thing People have questions They want to make sure They're doing it right They want validation
[00:15:40] They want someone to, you know, ask a question to When the market goes sideways And so that didn't happen And I think that's probably At least for a good period of time What happens with AI That there are areas You know, yeah, maybe a robot could come in And fix your toilet But do you really want a robot in your house Fixing your toilet? Or would you rather have a plumber there Who maybe use some AI To understand the problem But, you know, is going to be there
[00:16:10] To make sure it's done correctly And if something goes wrong You're not trying to get the robot back And all those kinds of things Right So I think there's probably Going to be Maybe even a reset Between white collar and blue collar A narrowing of the gap Because I think a lot of the Kind of knowledge workers As I said Are the ones who are going to be displaced I think there's going to be A huge explosion In small business And entrepreneurship Because if you're Somebody who's, you know
[00:16:39] More suited for managerial Type of work You're probably going to gravitate Towards entrepreneurship Versus trying to retrain yourself As an HVAC technician That's just the reality I mean, you might be able to make six figures Being a manager at Chick-fil-A But, you know Ego's a hell of a thing And I think that there are a lot of people Who just won't do that Unfortunately Right And so they're going to go So I think that if we were smart about this We would say
[00:17:07] We need to reduce barriers for entrepreneurship We need to make sure that we are investing In training and retraining And to the extent that people are displaced That they have good training to get more jobs And I think that we need to be very focused As the AI lobby heats up And make sure that, you know Their concerns are being taken care of Because again, they are going to be competing Against bad actors around the world
[00:17:36] And we want to be in the driver's seat here That we also are protecting individual rights And individual freedoms at the same time And so those are the things that I would like for people To be really worked up about And to be, you know, pushing politicians And crafting ideas And throwing those forward And trying to get all of that worked out Now, do I think that's actually going to happen? No
[00:18:04] But this is why we're having this conversation To try to change hearts and minds, right? Right, right We're talking with New York Times bestseller and author Carol Roth Now, let's go to the debt And that's obviously a big topic of conversation right now I have these mixed emotions about this entire process On the one hand, to me
[00:18:34] Doge could have been as simple as just saying Hey, go back to the budget that was pre-COVID And I believe, like I've seen in some places that said If we just went back to the pre-COVID budget We'd be in a surplus So Over a half a trillion dollars You probably saw me talk about that last week Yes Oh my goodness So, like to me I think that would have been the easiest approach
[00:19:03] And I understand, you know, Doge's goals and things like that But the way The way that On the one hand The way that they approached Trying to do the things that they were trying to do Was so politically untenable That it made cutting in general Not workable In this political cycle And you do have That consideration to think about You do have to think about
[00:19:33] How the voters Will react to what you're doing So I think that's That's the one thing on the one hand On the other hand I do believe that we have to get this debt Under control But on the other hand I don't know if we can cut I don't believe that we could cut our way out of this I think we have to be very aggressive about growth And you and I have talked about this before Which is why I'm bringing this up
[00:20:00] Where we have to be aggressive about growth And then try to ease out of the spending Because if you just cut it dramatically without growth That sounds really good to people on Twitter But you'll tank the economy So where are you at on this For people who may not have heard our previous interview Just kind of give your thoughts on On the trick bag that we're in right now
[00:20:28] And what we need to do to try to maneuver out of it In the least painful In the most least painful way Oh boy Well, I'm glad to have your conversation Have this conversation with you So we can go into nuance Because it is very difficult To communicate these things in a post In an article You know, just kind of one off This is a very difficult situation That's been built up over time And, you know, just completely untenable And unsustainable
[00:20:58] So we have a number of different things going on And I'm going to say my biggest criticism That I think would have fixed this all And maybe still does fix this all, Darvio Is communication I think the communication of a plan If there is one Has been abysmal And if you explain to people What it is you're doing And the steps you're taking And why they have to be done in a certain order People can get behind it
[00:21:25] And it doesn't look like you're ignoring their concerns But there has been a lot of mixed messaging A lot of, you know, pie in the sky Things that are untenable And a lot of things that have been ignored And I think, you know, this starts You know, any relationship Whether it's, you know, personal, professional Or between politicians and voters It needs to have good communication Right And so if I were in charge Which I'm not But if I was
[00:21:55] The first thing I would have done Out of the gate Is I would have, you know, dug in on deregulation And trying to codify the tax cuts And I would have communicated Just as you said That look, we've been given a really bad lot here And we need to make sure that the deficit You know, isn't exploded in terms of the GDP In order to make sure we don't, you know, sink the ship While we're trying to turn it around
[00:22:24] And so if by doing that We're going to supercharge growth And it's going to give us, you know The flexibility to go in and make cuts And I think that people hearing that Could go, okay, that makes sense And then you say, okay, we're going to take the doge cuts And the low-hanging fruit Waste abuse, fraud Things that are sent, you know, overseas That actually aren't contributing to our GDP Or the low-hanging fruit
[00:22:53] That isn't going to, by cutting it You know, send the GDP, you know, into a tailspin Where it's going to completely blow up our efforts So we're going to do that right out of the gate And then we're going to take these doge cuts And we're going to put a timeframe on them And we're going to say we're going to do them But this is how we're going to do them In a way that they're phased in over the next few years So again, we're not taking this massive hit to GDP While we're trying to grow our way out of this problem
[00:23:23] And I think that's the right approach To this problem in the short term The bigger issue is that something needs to be done Something needs to be put in place To reign in Congress in the long term And I'm hearing exactly the opposite, right? I'm hearing from Trump that he's in agreement With Elizabeth Warren, for Christ's sake And that he wants to remove the debt ceiling
[00:23:51] Which on one hand, you know, has never worked It's been raised like a hundred times and blown past So it's not an ineffective tool But what is it that you're going to put in its place To reign in Congress? Because anything that we're doing here If there isn't a limiter on Congress going forward None of this matters We're just going to be back in the same place And any of the other creative things That the administration may have to do
[00:24:19] In order to maybe get the interest rate down on our debt Because, you know, as I said, that's a killer We're spending more on interest than we are spending on defense And it's on a trajectory to be our largest expense item Which is just, you know, completely, you know, untenable For the United States and its fiscal foundation So if they're going to do something The release valve for whatever it is they're going to do And I can come up with all different kinds of scenarios
[00:24:46] From Fed QE to writing up gold To, you know, so on and so forth All of those things are going to be inflationary And if we're going to have to take another inflationary hit And see that, you know, start to move back up again Again, there needs to be a really clear explanation Of why it's being done And a really clear rain on Congress to say This is never going to happen again And we're doing this as a one-time fix And we know it's going to be painful
[00:25:15] But we're going to make it out the other side stronger And again, kind of like our other discussion There is a clear path There is something that makes sense But do we have the political will to get this done? You know, that is where this all falls apart In my, you know, unfortunately very common sense And realistic mind And, you know, I don't see us going down that path But that would be the way to do it
[00:25:43] Well, and I think too, going back to the issue Of the communication part That is what makes some of this politically untenable Because at the end of the day You're asking folks The way that this has been messaged And really, in my view Some of the execution as well Has been really, really It's like some folks went in And said, let's do this
[00:26:13] The most politically painful way we can possibly do Like, let's try to cut stuff that we know isn't going to be popular And let's do that first Like, that's a really bad idea If you're trying to get political support from the voters To accomplish what you're trying to accomplish And I think part of that is Is to your point earlier
[00:26:42] When you have people who have high IQs but low EQs That becomes a problem Because part of this is political Well, I would say in this realm though In this realm I'm not even sure we have the high IQs So... That's true, that's true But it becomes a problem You have to Like, people say Oh, it shouldn't be about politics They're politicians Like, it's in the name And they answer to the voters So you have to
[00:27:11] You can't lose the voters And I see this happen Multiple times I see it In Democratic administrations Republican administrations Where They'll believe in There's something that They want to do Whether it's right or wrong Good or bad And they believe in it so strongly That they don't think They have to bring the voters The people along with them That they just try to force it through And that never works What ends up happening Usually
[00:27:41] Is You get your butt kicked And it scares everybody else away Now they don't want to touch it at all And I think that's the situation That we're in With, yeah, we got a debt problem And we got to figure it out But I think that the In some ways The dole's rollout Has been so Bad How it's made it politically untenable And people Don't have the will to do anything Well, I would also say
[00:28:11] If you want to throw out Execution errors I would also talk about the tariffs Because the execution and rollout of that And the timing and choreography Given everything else we have to do Made not a lot of sense Yes To this day We're still struggling through it And there's still 20 different explanations Of why it is That we're doing what What it is that we're doing None of, you know Nineteen of which Of course Are going to be proven wrong And conflict with each other
[00:28:41] And then, you know The doge I feel like they had a mandate For doge But I agree That to say Okay, we've identified these things And then Here's why we can't cut this All overnight Here's why we have to phase it in And here's, you know How we're tiering this And why we think This is the right way to do it Is just such a simple leap to make Like all you have to do Is have a press conference President Trump loves to talk to people People love to hear From President Trump
[00:29:10] All you got to do is Load up this plan In a teleprompter And he's going to sell it Because that is what he does He is a salesman And I don't think That the people around him Have done him You know Any favors By, you know Kind of all of these different ideas Coming in different directions And, you know This lack of clarity Of, hey We really have a grasp Of what's going on This is a really serious situation
[00:29:39] You might not agree With how we're going about this But let me tell you why There's a plan There's a reason And here's why we think It's going to work And it's going to benefit you I think the people You know Like myself Like others Who are really focused On getting down that spending Over time That's what you want to hear You want to hear That there actually is A plan Not that, hey We've identified All of this stuff And it was just like A sideshow to the main circus
[00:30:09] To keep you distracted While we do what we always do And pass this bill That's just going to Continue to puff up the debt I'd like for someone To, in a very clear Sesame Street sort of way Just walk us through Here's the plan And I think people Will give the time And the flexibility For the plan If they know what it is And how long it's expected To take And you can see Those milestones Being reached along the way And that hasn't happened And coming out of the gate
[00:30:38] And not tackling You know, the Making taxes permanent And deregulation And things that You know, lower barriers And unleashed growth Right out of the gate And instead getting You know, mired In this tariff nonsense Was just an unforced error That I think everything else Has kind of fallen from In terms of the The lousy communication So, I do think There potentially Again, is a window here That that could be righted And go, okay
[00:31:08] You know, I know I know you all didn't like this Here's, you know Let us communicate This going forward But I don't think There is a A fully open window This cannot go on For too much longer At some point Credibility is going to be lost There's going to be Even more infighting Right And at the end of the day Anything that is good That's done It's not going to matter And it's going to end up Handicapping You know, the ability To do anything else And, you know The midterms are going To be a disaster So, it's
[00:31:40] It's It's It's tough Being on the sidelines When it's so obvious What needs to be done And just watching You know, the fumble Happen on the On the one yard line Which just Kills me All right We're talking with Carol Roth We have a few minutes left And you brought up The next thing I was going to tackle And that is the terrors The fumble Because I Again, and you and I Have had this conversation Probably
[00:32:10] It Again, this is another one Of those things That is frustrating to me Because I am not Anti-tariff And I do believe That there are Some situations Where we should Have tariffs Where we should Have things in place To protect Particularly things That we need for like Life sustaining Health sustaining And In our own defense We shouldn't have to be Dependent I think when
[00:32:39] When COVID happened And we learned Like I remember That people didn't have At the beginning We didn't have enough tests Because you needed Cotton swabs for the tests And we were getting the cotton From That goes in the cotton swabs From China That's stupid We shouldn't be in that situation Or when people were having A hard time getting Pharmaceutical drugs Because the The Some of the ingredients For those drugs Were made by Like you should not Be dependent upon Your biggest adversary To
[00:33:08] For your life To sustain your life Or your health But The The tariff strategy In general Overall To me Seemed like It was very scatterbrained And I don't know What the goal was Now for me If you're I'm willing to go with you Beyond what I just mentioned The qualifiers I just mentioned I'm willing to go with you On tariffs
[00:33:38] If the goal is To get everybody To lower their barriers Which is what I thought The goal either was Or should be Because we should want American companies To be able to have The same amount of freedom And access to other markets As other markets As other markets have to us I am all for that But it don't seem like That is the actual goal Through this So what is the plan?
[00:34:08] What is the strategy? What is the point? Nobody knows And that's the problem Because you cannot say Well we're trying to make great deals So that we all have free and fair trade At the same time saying Oh tariffs are going to pay for your income tax Like you know You gotta pick one If you want to have one or the other You can make an argument And we can debate that But you can't have every strategy That are you know And again when they're in conflict With each other So I'm with you I think that this was As I said it Just an unforced error
[00:34:38] A massive fumble Just yes If we have places Where there is a really big issue In terms of rare earth minerals In terms of shipbuilding Our national defense Pharmaceuticals Things that keep us safe Like yes Focus on that And if you need to put a tariff On those specific things That's great But this idea Of us having a trade deficit And that it being a problem at all
[00:35:08] Let alone a bigger problem Than our national deficit Is a head-scratcher And unfortunately Since we have a fairly Financially illiterate population My guess is that people Are just conflating the two That they think that the national deficit And the trade deficit Are the same thing Or you know Inexplicably related When they are not And there are just Certain places where I keep laughing about Vietnam You know Vietnam
[00:35:35] People on their median Salary there For years like $4,000 It's like we have a trade deficit With Vietnam It's like okay Well you're gonna sell them More Ford 150 trucks When they make $4,000 a year Like what? How do you think that works? I just I just I don't know I don't know People don't have no idea What they're talking about But at any rate It's Again So coming out of the gate And you're trying to Supercharge the economy
[00:36:05] Why is this even In the discussion At this point? You've now put up barriers I mean you had businesses When you know The 145% Tariffs from China Were on that just Stopped doing business Because that's Not a tariff That's an embargo You cannot do business When your cost of goods Is now at 145% You know Of what it was previously So It's just The whole thing Made no sense
[00:36:35] It continues to make no sense The end game I've predicted all along Is just going to be Something that is Marginally better Maybe And that you know We declare this Massive victory With a huge cost associated And I'm not Poo-pooing that we have Big issues I mean we have Issues with China Stealing our Intellectual property But going back to Communication Again you've got The most charming Negotiator In the world Sitting at
[00:37:05] Mar-a-Lago Like why Are you not Inviting people Over for dinner And showing them A good time And you know Patting them on the back And charming their pants off And cutting deals And only using the threats After all of that Hasn't worked Because I feel like In most of the scenarios President Trump You know you're going to go Okay this was great Yes let's Let's do this We didn't have to go Through throwing U.S. companies
[00:37:34] And consumers Under the bus In order to get Something done It didn't need to be done Now It didn't need to be done As the first step In a strategy I just Don't Understand And again people May be saying Well what do you know Carol Did you go to Wharton Like Donald Trump Yes I did Are you a deal maker Like Donald Trump Well yes I've done billions Of dollars worth of transactions Thank you So it's not like I don't know what I'm talking about In this domain And I know I'm not Donald Trump And I don't have his bank account
[00:38:04] But you know I'm doing pretty well here And as a strategic thinker It's just like strategy And problem solving Is like you know center of the plate to me And there just seem to be so many more obvious ways And I feel like there are just too many voices You know in and around the administration That you know have an agenda But maybe only understand that piece And don't understand how it relates to everything else And I just again think this was a big mistake
[00:38:34] That they can get out of And you know if you don't care That they call Trump taco Then you know Trump always you know caves Or whatever it is Like it chickens out You know as long as you don't care about that And you care about actually fixing our fiscal problems There is a way forward here But we have a very narrow window Very narrow And lastly
[00:39:04] To that point There was one thing that you said And I think you said this publicly And I believe you said it on our last interview as well And this was at the very beginning Of the administration As the administration was being built out And you kind of flagged one of your concerns Was that there wasn't enough people Who understood small businesses in particular That was in the inner circle of the administration And I think we've kind of seen that play out Because like to your point about the
[00:39:34] The kind of contradictory Helter-skelter nature Of some of the things that they do Where you have one thing that they're trying to do And then you have another thing that cancels out The other thing Like we've seen that often And when you're in the situation that we're in And you need the economy to get juiced up I've seen things that has negatively impacted Small businesses in general That have negatively impacted
[00:40:02] Minority-owned businesses in particular That have negatively impacted All of the pieces that you really need If you're going to try to pull off To pull the rabbit out of the hat And grow your way out of this So if you were talking to the administration On a small business conversation What's the one or two things that you would tell them They absolutely either need to do Or need to stop doing
[00:40:33] In order to get growth At the level that we needed to Particularly with small businesses Because small businesses are the engine of our economy They are I mean there's 35 million of them And if you go back to the beginning of our conversation And believe that AI may trend in that direction I think we're going to have a lot more And Main Street elected Trump They were very optimistic And unfortunately If you look at the optimism index You know from NFIB and other places Small business optimism
[00:41:02] Has come cratering down In the last couple of months Because they thought They were going to get government out of the way And instead they got more barriers So what I would tell the Trump administration Is that they need to have You know a small business perspective On every single thing that they're doing And at the end of the day You have to ask yourself Is does this create more barriers And a non-level playing field for Main Street
[00:41:30] Because this administration From Scott Besson Treasury Secretary to Trump Have said we want to be Main Street first And that Wall Street has had its turn And it's now Main Street's turn But a lot of the things that they've done Haven't followed what it is That they've said that their goals are And I think that that's a really smart goal And a way to continue to move this engine forward In a very decentralized manner In a way that supports freedom In a way that's going to benefit the economy
[00:41:59] And hopefully help in any way that we can With this debt problem So you know when you do something like tariffs You have to ask yourself Okay what does this mean for small business? And small business is super complicated Because you as I said 35 million They're all in different industries And geographies and whatnot So there are some small businesses That are in US manufacturing That probably benefited greatly from the tariffs But that is a very small piece Of what small businesses are
[00:42:29] And there are all the small businesses That have part of their supply chains that are abroad Which again doesn't mean that they're a Chinese company They're still supporting US jobs here And revenue and profit here in the United States But that don't have options To do their business at a cost That a customer would actually purchase from them You don't want to create that barrier But instead we heard Well you know So and so is going to get two dollars for Christmas
[00:42:58] Like what what are you talking about? Like that's not a freedom pro business Pro small business You know pro anything talking point That's like a communistic talking point So if I were in the room I would say you need to have a council of people And you need to be running everything by them And saying what is the impact on Main Street Because at the end of the day As I talk to small businesses across this country Nobody wants special treatment They just don't want barriers
[00:43:26] And every barrier that the government erects Is more difficult and unwieldy For a small business to handle Because they don't have the balance sheets And they don't have the legal departments And they don't have the resources to be able to do it When I see that Apple That has tens of billions of dollars in cash On its balance sheet And is looking to do massive buybacks Is getting an exemption from tariffs At a time when small businesses weren't exempt
[00:43:55] You have to ask like who's running that policy And how is that Main Street first So you know let's go back to what your policy That you said you know you wanted to have Which was Main Street gets a chance And let's get people at the table That can point these things out to you Because I don't think that they're necessarily Doing them intentionally There's just nobody who's actually thinking About this stuff and bringing it up And raising a hand going oh hey by the way guys You know 35 million small businesses Let's talk about them
[00:44:25] Let everybody know how to follow you And keep up with what you got going on All right well I have a free economic newsletter And we talk about things like this And you know get into the weeds At carolroth.com slash news And I am on all the various social media At caroljsroth And latest book is You Will Own Nothing And I think you can see from this discussion Where I was going with that It's always a pleasure to talk to you It's never a pleasure to talk about the stuff
[00:44:55] That we talk about But it's always a pleasure to talk to you Thank you for coming on the show And being our first guest on the radio my friend Yes well congratulations again And hopefully maybe the Cleveland Browns And the Chicago Bears Will have a really good start to the season this year And we can come on and we can talk football instead Yes that would be beautiful Thank you my friend Thank you Stay tuned we have Tea Time with Ro coming up next Here on the Outlaws
[00:45:22] Turn it up The latest celebrity news and gossip It's Tea Time with Ro on the Outlaws radio show All right y'all so This is crazy
[00:45:52] This is a crazy crazy topic Okay this is something that we often talk about I think we've talked about a lot in the past Where it comes to just abuse of a man Or abuse of a woman And we've talked about that quite a bit So this topic is actually about DDG and Halle Bailey So they split up some time ago I think DDG might be a rapper or something of the sort
[00:46:19] I didn't know who he was until they got together But Halle Bailey is an R&B singer Halle Bailey is an R&B singer And they had a baby together And well it's suddenly become very toxic And allegedly he started putting his hands on her And she was cheating on her I think with Lala I think that's her name Don't come after me if I find say right
[00:46:48] But he was cheating on her with Lala In a whole different state Or something of the sort And that's kind of where the problems kind of started So then turns out Halle Bailey also was being abusive After having the baby Like she had postpartum And that's also another thing you know With women you know When we have a child that kind of just happens Our body just kind of does that
[00:47:16] But she also may be dealing with some other mental health issues Allegedly I don't know By stating she picked up a gun at one point And took it from him And so she was making threats with the gun And also recently She said that he put his hands on her Now she's talking about taking the baby And leaving the country And he's trying to file
[00:47:47] To take custody Sole custody of the baby And it's just like a big old mess It's just all over the place And I just I'm going to just say my opinion on it My opinion on it is one Obviously everybody They're young But everybody should know First thing you don't do Is put your business Your relationship out on social media And that's really what they've been doing And it's Everybody's having opinions on it
[00:48:16] Oh, Hallie Bailey's in the right Hallie Bailey's in the right And a lot of I see guys that have issues with it And they say oh women automatically Want to take the woman's side And say oh she's in the right He's in the wrong He did this and that But I guess he hit her at one point And allegedly chipped her tooth And it's just been a back and forth abusive Type of relationship And it's just like where does it stop Like and the thing is He's coming after her right now
[00:48:45] For the custody But the thing is You're stating all these things about her But we all know how this works You cannot accuse somebody in the courtroom Or at all Unless you have physical proof Otherwise it's your say against her say And that's really all you got So I'll say this From what I've seen in this story A couple of things One the timeline
[00:49:14] A lot of women were like Well we're trying to excuse Her alleged poor behavior By saying By using the postpartum depression As an excuse Well the problem with that is When you look at the text messages That were released A lot of that Was prior to her getting pregnant So that shows A different kind of pattern And when we have a conversation
[00:49:44] About abuse And whether it's an abusive relationship This sounds to me I don't know who hit who first I'll just put that out there So to me it's not about one side or the other To me this sounds like a mutually toxic relationship This sounds like This sounds like Two people Who are abusing each other Depending on The time and Which one
[00:50:12] Was at the other end of the fist Or the hand Or what have you The Some of the things that Was allegedly said On those text messages Are absolutely concerning And The problem I think that I have With the whole thing Is There's Too many people Looking to Make excuses for bad behavior Instead of saying Look
[00:50:42] From what we know And we don't know much Because we weren't there But from what we know It looks like Both of them Abused each other And I don't think People are ready to have that Conversation Because I do believe That there is still a bias Against the idea That men Can be abused People just Don't believe it A lot of people Don't believe it A lot of women
[00:51:11] And some men Refused to accept The idea That a man can be abused And I think Obviously we're seeing A lot of hypocrisy In this conversation On both sides In my view And to me The fundamental issue Is that It looks to me Like this is A mutually toxic Relationship And both of them Abused each other Dante, your thoughts
[00:51:41] Yeah, that's what I was About to say too I think it's It really sounds to me Like two people That should not Have been together Were together They exasperated The situation by having A kid together And Of course that didn't Save their situation It probably just made it worse And They need to be apart Because it seems to me Like they were just
[00:52:11] Way too toxic For each other Once you get to the point In a relationship Where as he said She said in terms of abuse That means you probably Got a whole lot of wrong On both sides And it's not One side Is clearly in the wrong And the other side Is clearly the victim No, you probably got Both sides are abusers And both sides are victims And It would have been better For that
[00:52:40] Couple not to have ever been together Basically is what I gather So I don't know where it goes from here But I Kind of feel bad for a child And you just really hope that they can In some way Be able to co-parent Like can they get past this And figure out how to co-parent Because Right That's really all this should be about At this point, right? Like to me It's like you guys should not have been together You guys Please don't ever think about getting back together You're too toxic for each other Please, honestly Don't even get into
[00:53:09] Another separate relationship Because Y'all gotta work on yourselves Obviously But Are y'all able to co-parent And just Put each other's Egos to the side And just Do what's best for y'all child That's really what this should be about In my opinion Right Well, I'll just give a few little More details on that And that's really all I will have I'll just let you know It does say That the mom accused Hallie Bailey
[00:53:38] Of tracking him with air tags Hallie Bailey said Her mental health is under control And DDG And calls DDG out for the embellishing In the custody case These are just a few of the things That's just some of the things That's going on I definitely agree with you guys I mean it's I don't know I think It's too many toxic relationships Too many toxic relationships And it's if you cannot Keep your hands to yourself That right there alone
[00:54:08] Should just tell you This is not going to work And there needs to be found A middle ground Even if that means Having to have Somebody there When you guys are Doing the whole co-parenting thing Like if you have to have A middle man Transitioning the child From mom to dad Or dad to mom There has to be something They have to be able To work that out All right, next Oh, well
[00:54:37] So I can actually talk about this So Cardi B and Offset So Cardi Our Offset fires off at Cardi B For getting their son's hair Braided exactly like Stefan Diggs That literally exactly looks like his hair And that was very petty That was very petty of her But I mean his hair does look cute I'm not going to lie
[00:55:07] But like, you know, I mean How would you guys feel If you had a child with somebody And they were mocking your son's hair From the man that they were dating Dante, I'll let you take this first I wouldn't be in that situation I wouldn't be in that situation But let's just say Let's just say hypothetically Let's just say Just if you were Let's say if you were in that position
[00:55:37] How would you feel about that? I couldn't, you know why Darvion, and I can speak for Darvion And say he wouldn't be in this situation Because he wouldn't date, nor would I A woman like Cardi B He also probably wouldn't cheat on his You know, on his baby mom Or his wife, they were buried actually Yeah, like Offset was doing So another couple that probably Shouldn't have been together But yeah, I'm telling you I think Offset, man, he probably You know, it's not really even a loss
[00:56:05] Like, they probably thought the hairstyle was cute Just decided like, oh yeah My son would like this He probably nothing wrong with it I think he probably a little salty That, you know, this guy is This football player done Scooped up his girl or his ex That's his bad though So, that's probably why he really mad But, who cares Let me ask y'all this Do you feel, and this is kind of off topic But on
[00:56:31] Do you feel that Cardi B came up more Because she started dating Offset? Or do you feel that she is? I think they were both mutually famous Oh, okay, I was gonna say Who's the bigger star between them? Well, now she's worth more than him But originally I don't mean it That's a different question though Who's the bigger star? Oh, well I feel like she might be more recognizable
[00:57:00] To like the average person Or her name Or recognizable to the average person Maybe that just stems from the fact That Offset started his career In a group Yeah, possibly But like, I feel like And this is just You know, this is with no information I haven't studied at all I feel like Cardi was always Kind of more famous than Offset But that's just That's just a guess Hmm Alright, so We are running short on time
[00:57:29] Because of the interview today So we're gonna go to break We're gonna go to Dante's Hot Takes All three of us have Have some thoughts on what the hot takes are For the day So we're gonna get to that Stay tuned, we'll be right back You're listening to The Outlaws Yo, what's up? Bring the noise right here Chuck D, public enemy number one You are tuning in to Outlaws Radio Show
[00:57:59] Welcome back to The Outlaws Radio Show Telling the truth Whether you like it or not It's Dante's Hot Takes On the Outlaws Radio Show So Based on last segment We talked about two celebrity couples That couldn't be together Because they were just too toxic Well now we have a political union That has been fractured
[00:58:28] With Trump, President Trump And Elon Musk Basically not only ending their Political bromance But also deciding to go at each other In a Twitter cage Matt, Trump used to social Because of the really big beautiful bill That Trump got through the House So as you know, Elon left his position at Doge And has been outspoken Since his split with the President Over the big beautiful bill
[00:58:58] Which does have some merit But it will cause Maybe four Maybe up to four trillion dollars Adding that to the deficit And as you know, Elon was very outspoken About shrinking government spending Shrinking the deficit Because he says it is unsustainable So I thought today Was just a really bad day For both Elon And Maga
[00:59:28] Just a bit on Elon's side A group of his shareholders Is supposed to be meeting here pretty soon To see how To discuss how his behavior Potentially impacts His companies You know, Tesla was down About 17% today It was one of the worst days In recent memory for that company Trump has You know, put out on Truth Social That maybe he should If we really want If the government really wants to save money That maybe we should
[00:59:56] Cancel all of Elon's Subsidies for his For his contract For his government contracts Through his businesses This is just a really bad thing Overall for For the Trump administration And also for Elon Obviously the consequences Like we already talked about With Elon's companies But also with Trump I mean, this is a A huge fraction Or a huge fracture In With the guy Who many people believe
[01:00:26] Helped him The most Get to the White House So I'm interested to see How this plays out I don't think this Goes well for either side But I do think that Trump Because of his current position As the president Does have the upper hand right now So I am Watching this And I'm sitting there Eating popcorn Because I'm like If you follow me on social media I've told you
[01:00:56] I've told you a long time ago That Elon ain't who People think he is And I've had A number of issues With many of the things That Elon said He said And done Particularly The racist stuff Because he's said And done And retweeted And reshared A lot of racist stuff And also He This I'm not surprised This is who he is
[01:01:25] He didn't like Something That Trump did He And he didn't like That he wasn't getting his way And it being changed And so when Trump pushed back He behaved Elon behaved like a petulant child That's what he does This isn't new And like I said I've been very critical Of Elon in the past On social media Because of the way That he behaves This ain't This ain't new
[01:01:55] So to me I don't know what people expected Of course you were going to have When you got two egos like that Eventually they were going to clash I'm not surprised But My view is just It is what a TI is Robin What did you think of all of the back and forth? I think I just found out today I didn't realize there was a cat fight Okay I must have been under living under a rock Because when I seen that today I'm like
[01:02:26] That's some tea right there Like I was so excited But then I found out I've been completely Out of the loop But I think this is a lot There's a lot of things going on Within this situation I mean they're throwing One another up under the bus With a lot of things Like I can definitely say that I had a lot of dirt When I was reading things Even though a lot of the things We already suspected
[01:02:55] But it's like Come on now Like don't don't like beat around the bush Tell us what it is for real Tell us come on tell us You know I'm listening You know I will say this I saw one one tweet That was very entertaining to me It said this is The Republicans version Of Drake versus Kendrick That's hilarious So We'll see what happens next
[01:03:24] Dante let them know how to follow you sir Follow me on Instagram and Twitter At Taybride T-A-E-B-R-Y-E Miss O'Malley Follow me on Instagram At RealRobinO'Malley And Facebook at RobinO'Malley And you can follow me at D-TheKingpinAriWare That's D-T-H-E-K-I-N-G-P-I-N One more time Thank you to Carol Roth for coming on the show We are out of here We'll see you next week
[01:03:48] This was produced by FCB