Ep. 281 - JLTY Plus: Adam Coleman is Not a Victim

[00:00:01] This is the FCB Podcast Network. Welcome back everybody to another episode of Just Listen to Yourself. This is a JLTY Plus and you guys don't know this, but today is a bit of a do over. I had this guest on last week, the file got corrupted.

[00:00:47] He graciously agreed to give me a second chance. So I'm thrilled to welcome to the show today, author, speaker, columnist, Adam Coleman. He has written for the New York Post, Newsweek, the Daily Mail, Human Events, and he is also the author of a new book.

[00:01:05] Well, it's actually in re-release, Black Victim to Black Victor. It's available everywhere. Please welcome to the show, Adam Coleman. Adam, welcome to Just Listen to Yourself again. Glad to be back again. Well, we had such a good conversation the first time.

[00:01:26] I almost hate to do this over again, but it is what it is. And I want to thank you for agreeing to give me another opportunity, technology. And we struggled to even get this episode started like we were doing. Technology is like 100 and we're zero.

[00:01:45] We're always the losers, but we are up and running today. So before we get started, Adam, tell us a little bit about yourself and introduce yourself to the listeners. Sure. I guess I usually tell people that I'm an IT guy by trade who stumbled into writing.

[00:02:06] I wanted to write a book as a way to express myself and to leave something behind for my son as a legacy piece. And I really didn't have any expectations after that. I was fine in the IT field, although my job was kind of boring, admittedly.

[00:02:27] But I wasn't really looking to change anything. I just kind of wanted to create something, put something out there and see if anybody wanted to hear what I thought. And here we are a little over three years after the release of the original version.

[00:02:46] And I've been lucky enough to appear on multiple podcasts and live TV and so on and so forth. So when you have really low expectations, everything else becomes a real blessing afterwards. That's literally my life motto, expect nothing. I expect very little and I'm not disappointed.

[00:03:10] I do the best that I can, but I don't expect huge outcomes from stuff. I just want to have some sort of impact. So if it means one person reaches out to me and says, thank you, like I'm good with that. So yeah.

[00:03:29] Well, Black Victim to Black Victor, that's quite a salacious title. Tell us a little bit about the book and what made you a victim? I'm assuming the book's about you. What made you a victim and what makes you a victor?

[00:03:47] Yeah, I actually it's interesting because I didn't mean for it to sound salacious. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder. I always saw it as a positive because you talk about going from victimhood to victor. So it's moving in that right direction.

[00:04:10] But the book has double meaning because I'm talking about myself and I'm also talking about aspects of what we would call Black culture that emphasizes on victimhood, perpetuates it, applauds it, excuses it, you name it.

[00:04:30] So it's a book that talks a lot about my childhood, my experience growing up, not being around my father, struggling with depression and struggling with all different types of hurdles throughout my life, and sometimes feeling like a victim.

[00:04:49] And it wasn't until I started taking accountability for my mistakes, for how my life was going, that my life really started to take off. And without those exercises done before I became a public figure, I wouldn't be able to sit here with you.

[00:05:10] I had to go through a lot of work, working on myself, whether it be seeking therapy, whether it be just exposing myself to new things, new experiences, new people, to grow

[00:05:24] as a man and grow as a father, to sit down and talk about these things and not be worried about what people think because I overcame these things. So yeah, I wanted Black victim to Black victor to be something where we question things.

[00:05:43] So throughout the book, I question myself, I criticize myself, I criticize my father, and I even criticize my mother. And I think if you care about something, if you love something, you criticize it. And I care about all people, including Black people.

[00:06:00] And I think healthy criticism is worth doing if you actually care about something. It's really interesting you say this. I have a lot of things I want to ask, but did you see President Biden's commencement speech to Morehouse?

[00:06:21] Yeah, I actually wrote a New York Post piece about it. Oh, did you? So my regular podcast episode this week, I'm doing, and it'll be out before this interview, I'm doing a side by side comparison of his commencement speech to Harrison Bucker.

[00:06:40] And just like, just going through the talking points and analyzing and recognizing that I definitely have some bias. I don't really like Joe Biden. So there's nothing he's going to say that's really going to appeal to me.

[00:06:52] But I think it's really interesting the way you put it because you talk about the need to critique ourselves, to critique our own institution, be it our family or our workplace or our racial community.

[00:07:07] And that's what exactly what I was thinking, Adam, when I was analyzing Biden's speech. He spent a lot of time talking about all of the things that have never changed for Black people, you know, which I find it very ironic.

[00:07:20] You've been in power for 60 years and nothing's gotten better. I'm not sure that's something you should be bragging about, but I digress. Anyway, he's talking about all of the ways that the world is going to beat down these Black men once they leave college.

[00:07:35] But I remember thinking, gosh, there's no reflection here. Isn't commencement a time for when you reflect and say hard things about not just what's out there, but about who you are and what you've learned and what your responsibility is.

[00:07:52] I compare it to Harrison Bucker, who had some scathing rebuke for the Catholic church while he was in the pulpit. So he's speaking as a Catholic, as somebody who shares the views of these students. And he has a lot of positive things to say.

[00:08:06] But he also was very negative about the things that he felt needed to change within the church. And when I was watching Harrison Bucker and I watched it directly after I watched Biden, I remember thinking, Adam, gosh, one of these guys is telling us to look to self-reflect

[00:08:23] and to self-critique. And one of these guys is saying, you've done nothing wrong. The world is against you. And I thought, gosh, that is not the message I want my student to go out there with.

[00:08:37] I feel like as in the Black community, Adam, although I have plenty of criticism for the outside forces and the history and all of the things that add up to make Black culture as controversial as it is, I feel like it's such a challenge for Black people.

[00:08:57] And I'll say this, particularly for Black women, to self-reflect and self-critique. Why do you think that? First of all, do you share that notion? Maybe you don't. Maybe you don't think it's as common as I think it is. Why do you think that is?

[00:09:16] So one thing I've especially learned in the past few years is that anytime you have some sort of group or group affiliation, there's a knee-jerk reaction to seek out the traitor. And the traitor is someone who sticks their head up and they say the thing that other people

[00:09:37] aren't saying. But especially the traitor is someone who puts the mirror in front of the group and says, look at yourself. And that is the person that they're more likely to go after. That's the person that they suspect.

[00:09:50] So whether it be someone in the group of Black people who is saying, hey, we got problems and they don't like that because the group doesn't like to reflect on itself. And people have an ego about themselves. And it's hard for them to say, yeah, you know what?

[00:10:09] I messed up. Or we could do better. Or here's where I could improve. No one likes it when someone puts that mirror in front of them. They don't mind it so much when they come to that realization on their own.

[00:10:22] It's an ego thing when someone points out their flaw, then they become defensive. And then that's when they go after you. And when you have a group dynamic, it's much easier to claim that this person is a traitor of the group. And that's where they go after you.

[00:10:38] But I've seen this in politics. I've seen it amongst Republicans. This is a group I talk to most these days. And I've seen what happens when someone who says, I'm a Republican, and they point out, actually, well, this is kind of messed up.

[00:10:53] Or someone who says, I'm a Trump supporter. And they say, well, you know, I don't think Trump did this right. And so they go after that person. There's an expectation when it comes to groups where there is assimilation, nearly 100% assimilation. Some groups are stronger than others.

[00:11:15] But a lot of groups don't like it when you deviate from that. So yeah, I don't even necessarily think this is a Black-only issue. I think the Black issue, as far as pointing out these flaws, is harder because there's an economic model surrounding keeping these things in place.

[00:11:38] You have a mass media apparatus that advocates for degeneracy. You have race hustlers who want to take the criminals who exist within our group. These are the people that we would say, we don't want to model and hold them up as heroes,

[00:11:57] because they got themselves into some sort of legal jam or policing issue. And in some logical person, if this person was any other race, we would understand that, maybe you shouldn't shoot at the police. And then you won't get shot by the police. Very simple, logical stuff.

[00:12:20] How about don't play around with people who have guns? Just don't do that. Maybe you are putting yourself at risk and you're part of the issue as to why you had this negative outcome. This is absent of race.

[00:12:37] We could understand this, but it is much harder to see the issues within your group. And it's much harder once you do see those issues to say it publicly about the group so most people would rather stay silent about it.

[00:12:52] So I know we've talked before about, yes, racism within politics is not in a particular political party. It is a human flaw. Humans can be racist. Humans can be bigots. And so when we pretend that only one party is capable of doing it, and the other party

[00:13:14] is incapable of doing it. And then when you believe that your party is incapable, we're the most tolerant ones. So they are the ones. And then when you point these things out, they are unlikely to see it.

[00:13:27] They say, no, no, no, no, you misunderstood the context of what this person's saying. But they can see all the racism that happens outside the group. So this is an in-group versus out-group dynamic that is not necessarily unique to Black Americans.

[00:13:42] This is a human group orientation flaw that exists. Yeah, but don't you think what is unique to Black Americans is that we are a super minority in a majority country.

[00:13:57] So I mean, now I think we're, yeah, I think we are at the bottom of the pile now as far as numbers are concerned. And so we are this super minority. And so you nailed it really in the beginning of that little segment.

[00:14:16] You said there's this economic model tied to our rage. And so we have that. I do view that as a unique challenge for Black Americans because there is so much to mine. Other groups don't have as long of a history in this country.

[00:14:35] So they don't have that time to mine all that rage and injustice. We have all of this. And so we have a lot to draw from. But the other thing that I think is unique to us is that there is, unlike any other group,

[00:14:53] there's power in our victimization. So for anyone, really, it's not the same in other groups, in Asian, even in the Hispanic community. But even to go back to Biden's speech, listening to him talk to these men and tell them, the world isn't out here for you.

[00:15:17] You're probably not going to succeed because the world's against you and democracy isn't even real for you. You've got to worry about getting killed the second you walk out your door. And this is the President of the United States telling this young group of Black men.

[00:15:34] So in that respect, I do feel that it's unique for the Black community in the respect that it's more uniquely difficult to air these out. Yeah. So I meant necessarily the principle of calling out your own. I see. It's harder all over the place.

[00:15:59] I completely agree with you. There are uniquenesses as far as being Black and American and being able to, one, call out these things and two, put a squash to it. And there's something that you made me think about.

[00:16:14] There's this adaptation of other people's stories that exists that is almost uniquely, I wouldn't say that it's almost uniquely placed upon us as Black Americans. So what I mean by that is, imagine if you were born in America and no one ever told

[00:16:36] you about what the world was like before you were born, let's just say. Imagine you had a media that was something closer to the 1950s, very slow. You didn't know a lot as to what was going on outside of the world where you lived at, right?

[00:16:57] Very little national news came to you. And so you just didn't know. And let's say it's contemporary society as far as how people treat each other. Let's just say that. What kind of world would that child be living?

[00:17:15] Would they more likely, if they were a Black child, be able to live in a world where they felt like they were capable of prospering versus the world that we have today where

[00:17:25] there is a media apparatus that tells them about a Black man who was killed by the police thousands of miles away that has nothing to do with them. A educational system that reminds them of hundreds of years ago, painful strife for

[00:17:42] someone who happened to look like you, with the assumption that, well, someone in your family went through the same thing too, which is a huge assumption because not all of us came from slaves, but that's a whole other story.

[00:17:55] So imagine if we didn't have all those stories that we pass down. And these aren't stories that are used as educational pieces. These are stories of strife that are to remind you that it still exists. It's used for a different purpose.

[00:18:13] So we could objectively learn about, let's say the Holocaust, as someone who is non-Jewish and to understand this is the depth of human evil that exists in the world. But that wouldn't change how we live our lives because, well, we're not Jewish.

[00:18:34] But imagine if we were Jewish and imagine if someone was to weaponize that to make us fearful that the Holocaust is going to happen again and again and again. Would your life change after that if you have that as a constant reminder? And I think anybody would.

[00:18:48] If someone forces you to adapt to a story or to a narrative or someone else's story by loose association that now this is how you have to constantly see yourself, that sounds like a miserable, paranoid life that you're forced to live.

[00:19:06] And I think this is the life that a lot of Black Americans are forced to live. It is a constant reminder that when something doesn't work out, it's just like what happened years ago, and that's the life of being Black. Not everything is going to work out.

[00:19:23] And this sucks because you're Black. This is unique to you. And as someone who's been around all different types of people, I'm like, life sucks for a lot of people. Like life is hard for a lot of people. There's nothing that special about you. That's the truth.

[00:19:43] And to the paranoia piece, I think there is so much paranoia that, and I say this kind of with empathy, I think there's so much paranoia that a lot of Black Americans have about non-Black Americans.

[00:20:01] And I don't blame them for being so paranoid, but I also think that there's a lot of ego that is placed upon it to make them think that anyone who is not Black is always thinking about them. And that is also not true.

[00:20:18] They ain't thinking about you, you're not that special. So that's what I'm saying. Like the victimhood piece is a mixed up piece because it makes you egotistical enough to think that someone is always thinking about you, someone's always watching you, someone's always following you.

[00:20:36] They just copying you, right? It's this egotistical piece that says their success is because of your failure. And if they didn't succeed, you'd be able to succeed. Someone took that from you. They took our culture. We used to have that. They took it from...

[00:20:55] It's always someone else is doing something against us and it's never to reflect on what we did or what we're capable of doing. And to go to the Joe Biden issue in that commencement speech, my biggest issue was that commencement speeches are about celebration.

[00:21:13] And I saw no celebration within that. Thank you. I saw painful strife. I'm surprised he didn't mention the Underground Railroad while he was at it. And it's like, man, we can't even get a day where we say, you know what? Most Americans don't get a college degree.

[00:21:32] Thank you. We did it. And you know what? Yes, we can leave here. It doesn't mean that life is on easy street. You're going to have to work for the things that you want. Well, congratulations for spending four years of hard work and studying and excelling in

[00:21:51] that field that you're trying to pursue. And now you go out there and go out. You can do these things and you should do things in spite of the challenges that are in front of you. That's the type of thing you want to hear at a commencement speech.

[00:22:04] But instead, Joe Biden gave us garbage. Joe Biden gave us the all time... And see, here's the other thing. I know I'm talking for a little bit, but like... No, this is a talking podcast. We need you to talk. Talk, Adam.

[00:22:20] Like as I'm talking, I'm thinking there is almost nothing different between Joe Biden saying what he said and a lot of old black people saying what they would say. And that's actually the sad part.

[00:22:35] So we wonder why Joe Biden feels comfortable saying these things is because there are old men who would come up there and say the same damn thing as he would. Like, why else would he say the things that he says?

[00:22:46] He knows that it exists in our culture to say these things. He doesn't realize it's different because he isn't one of us. He looks different. But he's saying the thing that already exists. And you cannot be surprised when someone does that.

[00:23:02] It's like being mad at a white girl who buys a rap album and she says the N word. Right. Who do you think is buying these albums? I... You want them to always skip that one word? I struggle so much with that.

[00:23:19] Me and my daughter get into arguments about it all the time. I'm like, they wrote the word. If it's not supposed to be sung, why don't they put it in their freaking song? Yeah. And it's like, who do you think is making these rappers rich? Right.

[00:23:36] It's like, I'm sorry, but it's not black people. It's not black people. It's international. It's not even just white people who marry. It's international. That's how they're making all this money. They like the product. They like the degeneracy product. And so guess what?

[00:23:53] They're going to say the words too. And you can't be surprised when that happens, Kanye. What do you want? That's how I feel too. You just nailed everything you just said. You just nailed. This is what I was saying though about Biden's commencement speech.

[00:24:11] I was saying, this is a day of celebration. These are the last words that this group of people hear before they go out into the world. And these are young men at an elite college. Morehouse is an elite university.

[00:24:24] So they're already ahead of the game just by getting into Morehouse. And then just by finishing four years, they're already ahead of the game. You're addressing an elite group of highly educated young men who will go out into the

[00:24:37] world and be sought after by employers in their field. And the best you have to say to them is George Floyd, who was nothing like the young men sitting in that room. The only thing that those men shared was race. George Floyd wasn't sitting in an elite university.

[00:24:59] To me, yes. Again, there is this. You nailed it. It's this glorification of degeneracy, which I think we have internalized as a Black community. And I wish we could be more honest with each other. But in this day and age, to be honest is A, to be rejected.

[00:25:20] But it is also to be considered as a traitor. And I just don't think there's any value anymore in pointing outward as a Black community when we're not willing to do any work inward. I have a lot of criticism.

[00:25:32] People who watch the show know and listen to the show know I have a lot of criticism for the way Black Americans are treated, particularly in the Republican and conservative communities. I definitely have a lot of criticism, but I don't know if there's any value anymore in

[00:25:48] demanding that white people fix this problem when we just have such a rot in our own community. We need to look inward. And there are so few people willing to do that, and certainly not on a public scale. Hey, y'all. This is Allie Michelle.

[00:26:13] I'm a conservative social media influencer that has been censored by big tech. So I broke away from the restrictions and started a podcast called Pillow Talk with Allie Michelle. My show is a space to have real conversations about the issues that impact our everyday

[00:26:28] lives without the fear of being canceled by the big tech tyrants. Subscribe to Pillow Talk with Allie Michelle, an FCB podcast on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's Allie, A-L-I-I. Come check out my show. I'll see you there. No, you're right.

[00:26:50] And so I'm very much so, and anybody who reads the book can see like I talk a lot about psychology and human behavior. And I often look at group dynamics from like a psychological lens.

[00:27:05] And when I see certain behavior within certain groups, I say like that reminds me of this. Like if you took an individual, you would look at that person and say, you seem kind of this way.

[00:27:17] And then when you see a group of them doing the exact same thing, you start to realize that like, yeah, there's a mass appeal to carry out certain behavior. And one of the biggest behaviors that we don't ever call it what it is, is insecurity.

[00:27:35] There is a huge amount of insecurity that exists for many Black Americans about being Black. As much as they talk about other groups seeing Black people being inferior, they also think that they are inferior by their behavior, by how they talk about stuff.

[00:27:57] For example, when you have the Oscars so white, but at the same time, Black Americans have been having award shows of their own. Why do you care if the Oscars is white? Who cares at that point?

[00:28:13] We created, let's say I'll speak in a collective, we created our own. Why can't we celebrate our award shows? But no, our award shows get put on a side channel, not ABC. No, no, no, we don't get to put on ABC, we get put on BET.

[00:28:31] We can't go on ABC, y'all. We can't go on ABC. You ever seen the BET Awards? You've seen the Source Awards? We do not belong on ABC. Sorry, everybody. Our award shows turn into circuses. Well, that's what it turned into. It didn't always look like that. You're right.

[00:28:49] You're right. That's what it turned into. It's because even we don't take it seriously. Those same people who are at the Source Awards, best believe if they got invited to the Grammys, they would not dress that way. They would not act that way. They would dress appropriately.

[00:29:06] But see, that's what I'm saying. Even they don't think that their product is substantial enough for them. And that's part of the inferiority. Even from leftists, when they talk about Black Americans,

[00:29:22] they always talk about Black Americans as far as waiting for white people to accept us and like us. And I'm like, so in order for us to do anything, white people must change. So I'm taking their premise. White people are by default racist.

[00:29:39] So we must wait for them to change themselves to be better people so that we can do better. Right. It's just like, you know, that's an inferiority complex of waiting for white acceptance. And what's very interesting to me, and this goes to projection, what's very interesting to me

[00:30:04] is that you have those same people look at yourself and myself and say that we're dying for white people's acceptance. While at the same time, they say these very narratives that white people need to do this and do that so we can have better lives.

[00:30:19] It's like, you don't need to wait for white people to do anything for you to have a better life. Why are you waiting for white people's acceptance to do anything in this world? Right. And when I look at people who invented life changing products, people who went through...

[00:30:37] This is my fundamental problem with how we talk about Black history in America, which I do think is important that we do. My fundamental problem is that we talk about it from a victim angle. When these people move mountains to impact American society moving forward,

[00:30:55] the reason we have gas masks is because of a Black man who helped to invent it. Right. And he's also a man who was fair skinned. So he was able to get through certain doors. He still did all this stuff while living in a objectively oppressive society.

[00:31:14] And that is something that we should celebrate, that he was able to do things in spite of something that was obviously unfair put in front of him. He didn't say, well, I would do these things if white people were nicer to me. He didn't do that.

[00:31:29] And when you look over and over the people who succeed in this world, not even just Black Americans, but the people who succeed do not wait for someone to give them permission to succeed. They do it on their own.

[00:31:44] And not to be egotistical or anything, but I'll use myself as an example. No one gave me permission to write my book. No one gave me permission to create a web series. No one gave me permission to do all of these things that I've been able to do.

[00:31:59] I just wanted to do it. That's it. It's as simple as that. And when I look around me and the people who succeed, they're also people who just wanted to do it. No one tapped them on the shoulder saying, it's your turn.

[00:32:13] And we hear stuff like, I'm sure you've heard this in the political right, who thinks that being Black on the right is some sort of scarcity model where there's only a certain amount of people who are allowed to succeed who are Black.

[00:32:27] It's like, no, that's an inferiority complex that you have. No one's saying, well, listen, we have a quota of three Black people who are acceptable and one just left. So it's now your turn. People do say that, that I have faced that. But I'll put that aside.

[00:32:45] I actually have had that exact circumstance on the right. We already have two Black conservatives. If we hire another one, we'll be a Black channel. Well, see, and that, and listen, let's say if that is true. Yeah, that was just a story. You're making a great point.

[00:33:03] I'm sorry, Adam, please continue with your point though. But listen, I understand it. I'm not trying to just wag my finger. I understand what it's like to feel insecure about a certain situation, a certain outcome. Like I completely understand. I've been there.

[00:33:19] But what I'm saying is we have to move past the insecurity and say, all right, let's say if that's true. Let's say if they're only tapping certain people, well, you know what?

[00:33:30] I'm going to tap myself and create this and force them to take me on if they even want to. And you know what? I don't even care if they do. Like that is a different type of mentality that you have to have.

[00:33:42] And I've been faced with that so many times in the past few years where I'm like, these people aren't tapping me. These people aren't tapping me. You know, I don't give a shit. I'm going to create my own thing. I'm going to do my own thing.

[00:33:53] And people are going to notice. And that's the type of mentality that people have to have. But you have to really, truly believe in yourself. And I'm seeing so many people who are who either don't or being told that they should not bet on themselves. Right.

[00:34:08] We say always bet on black. We're telling black people not to bet on themselves. We're telling white people to do it for them. I'll tell you this little story. It's in my book, Drawing Lines, Why Conservatives Must Begin to Battle Fiercely in the Arena of

[00:34:23] Ideas available wherever books are sold. I tell this story in my book when I was becoming a conservative. I was serving, I was running an after school program in Gary, Indiana, exclusively black population.

[00:34:37] I was younger as a new mom at the time, and my students were elementary to middle school. And I was leading a study group. And I was telling the kids, I'm not going to be here next week. I'm going to Jamaica.

[00:34:48] My husband and I are going on vacation. And one of the girls said, and I want to point out, I was very, I was still a liberal at this time. And one of the girls said, Jamaica, why would you go to Jamaica for vacation?

[00:35:04] That's where white people go for vacation. It was the strangest thing. Even to this day, I have no idea like what connection she was making in her mind to say that. But she was really disappointed that I was going there because white people go there.

[00:35:21] And I remember saying, well, why is that a problem? She's like, I don't know. I just wouldn't want to be around all those white people on my vacation. Now, this is a young girl who doesn't have any interaction with white people at all.

[00:35:35] There's no white people in her school. There's no white people in her neighborhood. If she leaves town, there's no white people in Gary. If she leaves town, which even in that small town, a lot of people never left the confines of the city.

[00:35:48] If she leaves town, maybe she'll be served by a white person at McDonald's or something. Maybe. But I thought, gosh, why would she say that? She doesn't know white people. She's not had the opportunity to be oppressed by white people.

[00:36:05] And I realized that I was I had this moment, Adam, where I just thought, you know, all I do is tell these kids how challenging this world is going to be and how the world is set up against

[00:36:19] them and how when they leave school, this white person is going to try to oppress them. And these systems are going to be against them. I don't know that I've ever told these kids that they can actually do whatever they want.

[00:36:31] It never occurred to me to go or not go anywhere, let alone Jamaica, based on the quality or race of people who also might be at the same resort. I'm at it never occurred to me. I want to go to Jamaica. I'm going to Jamaica.

[00:36:47] I want to go to Europe. I'm going to Europe. I want to live in the south. I'm going to live in the south. To me, it's just whatever I want to do. That's what I'll do because I believe as a free American, I can do that.

[00:36:58] But that wasn't what I was telling the kids. And it was the first moment when I realized that I was not living the way that I was telling them they were going to have to live.

[00:37:12] And it was what started me on the path to distinguishing between what you say and what you do, what you believe is true for you and what you believe is true for everyone else.

[00:37:27] And I had to admit that there was a part of me then that thought and maybe some way I was better than all these people. And if I wasn't, then I would be just like them and I would be trapped in that city just like they were.

[00:37:41] But there must be something special about me because I'm not. But obviously, it's not their fault. It's just you saying that that's the story I had told myself. And that little girl telling me that was just one thing that just shook me.

[00:37:58] I just like, what are we doing to each other? And this is what we do. We don't tell each other like you live in the greatest country on Earth. You have so many resources available to you that the boundaries of the city are not the

[00:38:14] boundaries of your life. Our own president was looking at a group of young men who just did the impossible. And he chose to tell them that this is as far as they'll get. It's discouraging to want, it's discouraging to know you have a message for people that

[00:38:37] is, this is your job. This is nobody else's job. This is your job to do well, to succeed, to provide for your family. It's very discouraging because there's no where that message is welcome. Yeah. That story reminds me of two stories.

[00:39:03] The first one reminds me of my wife is part of this Facebook group and it was all Black women who were in there. And she told me about how one woman, I can't remember what it was and kind of messed up

[00:39:18] the story, but it was like some sort of activity. And she posted about the activity and she asked, do Black people do this? She was asking because she's interested in it. And I thought- Like canoeing or something? Yeah. We'll just say canoeing. Do Black people canoe?

[00:39:42] Because it sounded like she was interested in it or she liked it. So if that's the case, why are you asking if Black people do these things? It doesn't matter if Black people do it. You like it, you're Black. So guess what? Yes. The answer is yes.

[00:39:57] We do these things. We do everything. And it's like this weird, I go back to insecurity, this weird insecurity that we have about ourselves that we need constant confirmation from White people, from Black people, strangers who happen

[00:40:14] to be Black to tell us that what we're about to do is okay. And it's so infantile that we need this constant confirmation that, like a child, that we can't make decisions for our own, that we are only able to do certain things.

[00:40:32] It's like when you have a little kid, right? And that little kid is, let's say five years old, right? They're big enough where maybe they can reach the microwave. You teach them how to use the microwave, but you won't let them use a stove. Right?

[00:40:46] It's like they can do just enough, but you need permission from us to do everything else. It's so strange to me. And it reminds me when I started getting into traveling and I would go into these Black travel groups and I would see- Oof. Ah, why?

[00:41:08] Yeah, I would go into all types of stuff, but I'm assuming you've been in the travel group. No, boy, I would never join a Black travel group. Are you kidding me? Because I already know the story you're about to tell me, but go ahead.

[00:41:25] Yeah, it was more so like, okay, there's other Black people traveling, they're telling their stories, whatever. But there were a number of things that I started noticing that were kind of funny. The people who would go to Europe, they were like, oh, cool. You know? All right.

[00:41:42] But the people who went to Africa, oh, all the praise in the world. Oh, you went to Ghana? Oh, I don't want it. I'm dying to go to Ghana. It was this weird thing.

[00:41:55] And then you would see people who were like, someone might ask, has anybody gone to Africa recently? They're like, I went to Egypt. And then someone would be like, no, we mean Africa. Just like...

[00:42:12] See, that's why I don't want nothing to do with it, because it's always going to devolve into who's smarter, who knows what? And also, why are you going to Europe when you could go to Africa? That's why I'm not in any Black travel groups.

[00:42:27] It's like, I don't know, because I can go to Paris for $400 round trip. How about that? And I know it's going to have all the first world amenities, which I'm sorry, but Africa is largely a third world continent. Not my fault. It's not my fault. Right.

[00:42:43] And here's the other thing. I talked to Africans, people who live there, and they're like, yeah, it's not a good idea to just go walk around. You'll stand out. People will know. You shouldn't get a rental car because cops will you over and they'll try to get money

[00:43:04] out of you. Like, that's a real thing. And we just think like, oh no, it's just like America. Like you just do whatever you want. They're going to love us. They're Black. We're Black. Yeah, they don't. And to them, they don't even give a shit about that.

[00:43:17] No, they don't. In fact, most Africans don't like Black Americans. Yeah. So it's that kind of thing where it was a lot of weird flexing. Yeah. It was that. And there was also a lot of bougie Black people from like, especially Atlanta. I was about to say Atlanta.

[00:43:41] And there is a great episode of the show Atlanta where he goes to his girlfriend's bougie parents house and it's just like, oh yeah, this is bougie Black right here. Yeah. It was a weird type of bougie, bougie like attitude that existed there.

[00:44:01] But that's a whole other story. That is. That's a whole, that's an in-house conversation. Actually, I think most of the listeners of JLT will not understand what we're talking about. But even within the Black community, we're segmented and segregated.

[00:44:15] There's bougie Blacks and there's hood Blacks and there's college Blacks. We're all over the place. But I guess at the end of the day, that's really what we're talking about here is how there's so much diversity even within the Black community that we seem to have allowed

[00:44:29] ourselves to be homogenized into this group that is defined by our oppression rather than our diversity. And yeah, I loved what you had to say about like, do Black people do this? Well, are you doing it? Okay. Then Black people do it, I guess.

[00:44:45] That's my whole family's experiences like that. That's sort of the joke. My husband's family was like middle class, like lower middle class. They worked themselves their way up. But they were the first Black family on their block.

[00:44:59] And but they used to do stuff like go on road trips and go swimming and spend time at the beach and things that Black people quote, don't do. So I mentioned canoeing because they will go canoeing or boating or and that was always the joke.

[00:45:16] All the Davis family does stuff that Black people don't do. When my husband and I got married, we bought a canoe. We lived in the hood. We live right in the heart of the hood, right where he had grown up his whole life.

[00:45:27] We bought a canoe and we like to fish and we lived in Indiana. So Indiana's got lots of great lakes. You can just pull over the side of the road and get on one.

[00:45:36] So some days we would just put the canoe on the truck and we would just drive. And when we found water, we'd stop and get in the water. Well, don't you know, we lived across the street from my husband's childhood friend

[00:45:49] who went on to become the leader of the local gang, the Lords of Discipline, which always drove me crazy, Adam, because they spelled discipline wrong. There was no C in it. I just drive me crazy. Like they spelled it wrong. There's there's a C in discipline.

[00:46:09] He went on to be the leader. John John, John John was his name. I'm sure it's still his name. And so they would do nothing but stand out there and slang all day long. And we would go out in the morning.

[00:46:20] We'd be struggling to get this big old canoe on the truck. And those guys would just laugh at us. And they wouldn't even try to pretend they weren't laughing at us. They'll be like, oh, you struggling with that canoe? Black people don't canoe.

[00:46:34] What are you taking a canoe out for? Black people don't canoe. And every day we would take the canoe out. Somebody would tell us black people don't canoe. And again, we laughed it off. But in my mind, I remember thinking like. But we are canoeing.

[00:46:51] So I guess we do canoe. Why don't why don't you why don't you do it? And this is the thing that really bothers me about this whole discussion. And the title of your book really encapsulate this. This going from victim to victor is really it's a mindset.

[00:47:10] It's not a circumstance. It really isn't. Now, we if we lived and we're just talking about Egypt or Africa, if we lived in one of those countries, maybe this conversation would be different. But it's not different.

[00:47:22] We have the rights and freedoms afforded to us by the Constitution and this great nation. It's not a different discussion. The idea that we can do something, that it's OK for us to do something ourselves and we don't need the help or approval or permission of anyone else.

[00:47:39] It seems like that is a it's not just a dangerous idea. It's one we're not even allowed to have. And I think that it is causing. Well, let's talk about this, Adam. I'm going to go ahead and be real controversial since you brought it up.

[00:48:03] You brought your wife up. I see a real difference in the way black men and black women distill this conversation and feel moving forward. I have noticed in my life in the last four years and we're talking about it politically, so I think this is relevant.

[00:48:24] But a lot of a lot of black men moving to the right or seeming like they're moving to the right feel maybe society is probably moving further to the left more than anything. But and a lot of black men say, well, I'm probably going to vote for Trump

[00:48:40] or I'm thinking about changing my vote or my my sensibilities. My sensibilities, a lot more black men like yourself saying, hey, I want a traditional life. I want a wife. I want a family. I want a career. But the conversation is not the same among black women.

[00:48:59] And I find it much more difficult to talk to black women about looking inward, critiquing ourselves, doing things ourselves, getting out there and strengthening the community rather than demanding people give things to us. I feel like that is more of a female quality in this discussion.

[00:49:21] So you speak to that, Adam. Do you feel that black women and black men are processing this, all this, everything that we've talked about differently? And what's the problem here or is there a problem? Well, that was a lot. It was a mouthful. I know.

[00:49:39] And go ahead and say something controversial. I will definitely clip that up and send that around to go viral. You send all your hate mail to wrong speak at Gmail. Go ahead. I think the biggest difference, honestly, I think one of the biggest issues facing

[00:49:59] and I think it affects men and women in that this is why you're seeing a bit of a divide with relationships and things like that. I think feminism is a really, really big issue amongst a lot of black Americans. It affects men differently than women.

[00:50:19] But yeah, the feminism mantra is very much so alive when it comes to black women and how they move. Now, obviously not all black women, but it's part of popular culture as far as what it

[00:50:34] means to be a black female these days or not even just these days. In the past number of generations. I don't need a man. I could do bad by myself. These are just like the these are the slogans that start the mentality that men are optional.

[00:50:56] And I put the very same thing in my book that I think is a really, really big problem. And when you have women who think that men are optional, then you have men who take that as I don't really even matter in this equation.

[00:51:15] When you have women who say, you know, this relationship ain't working out for me, I'm going to take the kids and go. And I don't need him. I got a job. Well, you just reduce that man to being just an economic piece.

[00:51:31] To the family and not being a father within the household. So there is this constant reduction of men, constant reduction of how important men are. And I think for some men they've accepted it. But I think for many men, they're upset by it. Right.

[00:51:51] Because at the same time, they love black women. But it's like a it almost feels like a love hate relationship because they want to marry, they want to procreate, they want to date black women.

[00:52:06] But I think for many of them, it is difficult because they don't feel the same love back. And once again, I have to preference and say this, this is not all black women and this is not all black men.

[00:52:19] But there is a general vibe of animosity that exists amongst black men and black women. And you see it often in the online space. Now, it may be very perverted online, you know, sure, highly exaggerated. Fine, that's fair. But I've seen it in my personal life.

[00:52:39] I've seen how easy they just throw men away. I see how easy they fight to keep the father away, even though he's not doing anything wrong. I see how people for me as a as a father.

[00:52:55] Who didn't have his son live with him, but was involved in his life, how people would praise me because I see my son on the weekends. And I'm like, but that's not to me, that was never good enough. That's not acceptable. But everybody's cool with that. Right.

[00:53:11] That's that's like the that's the new standard. That's cool. Right. If I said every other weekend, they would have been like, all right, cool. They're like every weekend. Wow. Every weekend. Like it's it's that kind of lowered expectation as to the involvement of men

[00:53:29] within a woman's life, especially raising their children. And I think that is felt, I think the feminist mentality is felt. And then on top of that, if in the political realm, everyone caters to the feminist mentality that exists within black culture, politically speaking.

[00:53:48] So everyone says the mantra, everyone invites the feminists who are within the media. Everyone invites the feminists who are in hip hop, right? Who say all these things that empowerment is being raunchy. Empowerment is showing your body to everybody. That's empowerment, right?

[00:54:04] Go ahead, girls, you know, get your body count up. It don't matter. Like those are all things that were written and designed by men, but their songs are written by men, their clothes are designed by men. Anyway, just had to throw that in.

[00:54:19] But you know what's what's funny? It's it's a weird balance between the two because I hear what you're saying. But most men don't like stuff like that. Right. You're right. But but it caters to a female audience.

[00:54:34] So it's it's a weird, you know, weird part of of the thing. So why are more men moving away from the Democratic Party towards the Republican Party? And I think that sex has a lot to do with politics these days,

[00:54:51] where the Republicans are specifically trying to cater to men. And I think we're past the point of denying that because it very much so feels that and I'm a guy and I noticed that. And the left is specifically trying to cater to women.

[00:55:08] And I think the the that that dividing line between men and women in the political realm is like it's leading to doom in our relationships and doom in our relations means doom in our families and doom in our society.

[00:55:25] And I don't think I really don't like the trajectory that we're heading on from either side when it comes to these particular things. When I hear Republicans say we should repeal the Ninth Amendment, you know, women should have never voted.

[00:55:39] Maybe we'd be the 19th Amendment or I'm sorry, did I get the wrong? Yeah, I got it. Women shouldn't vote. Yeah, women should vote. I screwed that up. But but but when I hear stuff like that, that women shouldn't vote, well, why? Why are they saying that?

[00:55:57] Oh, because they're not voting for you. Oh, because they're not voting for you. So this goes back to the victim mentality. Well, they won't vote for us, so we don't need them. You know, why won't they vote for us?

[00:56:10] Why don't you get out there and do something and actually try to appeal to women? But no, they won't do that. So they'd rather throw the baby out of the bathwater and say, well, nobody, nobody, nobody who's a female should vote.

[00:56:22] And it's that kind of I see so much weak mentality when it comes to politics. But they're using sex to divide us. So I see the same thing when it comes to black Americans. Black men are going towards Trump because Republicans are catering to men.

[00:56:40] And I think for a lot of men, like, for example, we talk about the Manosphere. Why is Andrew Tate even talked about? These guys, these weirdo kind of guys being a bit of why? Because they're speaking to an element that exists,

[00:56:55] like some of the most prominent Manosphere guys are black men. Many of them are black men. Why is that the case? No one ever asked that question. We notice race about everything else.

[00:57:08] We never noticed that some of the most prominent people who are speaking up in the black, in the Manosphere are actually black men. Right. That's problematic. Yeah. Right. So I think that there's something, there's something that's there.

[00:57:22] It's not to say that they're right, but there is a feeling of being, I don't want to say oppressed, but a feeling of being marginalized. Yes. No, you're absolutely right. Hey y'all, this is Allie Michelle. I'm a conservative social media influencer that has been censored by big tech.

[00:57:42] So I broke away from the restrictions and started a podcast called Pillow Talk with Allie Michelle. My show is a space to have real conversations about the issues that impact our everyday lives without the fear of being canceled by the big tech tyrants.

[00:57:58] Subscribe to Pillow Talk with Allie Michelle, an FCB podcast on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's Allie, A-L-I-I. Come check out my show. I'll see you there. No, you're, you're, you're, I think you're spot on. I think I talk about Andrew Tate a lot.

[00:58:19] I think about him a lot because I despise him, but I'm also fascinated by his trajectory. And I think that it mirrors the popularity, although not in the same way, because these people are not the same and I do not, but their popular,

[00:58:34] his popularity mirrors the popularity of Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro. But what, what it is, is two sides of the same coin. These are because men have been told that being a man for so long is inherently bad. And as you said, everything's been feminized.

[00:58:51] All of our institutions are controlled by the feminine mindset and physical femininity. Education has shifted so much because women are in charge of it now where we weren't before. This is why I think a lot of Republicans say, like, maybe we should repeal the 19th amendment.

[00:59:06] You put women in charge exclusively of a lot of areas, those areas become feminized. And when we don't have a balance, just like when it becomes over-masculinized, you get an Andrew Tate.

[00:59:18] But the reason we have an Andrew Tate, the reason why a guy like Ben Shapiro or Jordan Peterson who aren't particularly masculine traditionally, but who are, who are promoting masculine ideals is the idea of men have been told now for decades that, that their feelings

[00:59:34] and the way they view the world is inherently perverse. And so to hear someone say, no, being a man is good. Being aggressive has, you know, there's a reason for it being, you know, men are starving for it. And when you're starving for something, you'll eat anything.

[00:59:54] And that's what I think you see happening on the right. I don't think the right is catering to men. And I say this as someone who's now been doing this job for almost 20 years and who wasn't a Republican. So I've seen the party shift.

[01:00:08] I don't think they're purposefully catering to men. I think what it is, is they're reacting to feminism, which is reacting to the patriarchy. We're all just reactionary and this is why we can never moderate or regulate. But yeah, I think we are starving for traditional gender roles.

[01:00:31] And when we honor those roles, I think as you pointed out, the results are a flourishing society. I think often about how, like even when you said you were talking about bougie Black people

[01:00:44] and like, but like then there's this also aspect of our community where men can't seem to find women who are welcoming these traditional relationships and what this is what men want. I think ultimately too, one thing we are not addressing is there's a big class issue here.

[01:01:02] And so we have a race issue that lumps us all together, but we're not all the same. Some of us are operating in very different class strata and that means what we look at is different.

[01:01:15] So I find it very interesting that there are women who will look at other women or other men, and they will tell you all of these things that this will make you successful. You don't need a man. You don't need a traditional family.

[01:01:30] You don't need kids or wait until you're in your forties and have had all of your success in your life. But that's not how the successful among us are living. The pay attention to the people who tell you what you need to do to be better.

[01:01:45] And if it's not what they did, don't listen to them. Most of these people, they don't understand. They got married in their twenties. They came from a two parent household. They went to college before they had kids and they didn't have kids until they got married.

[01:02:00] And then they stayed married and all the things are telling you, you don't need. They have. We have this real disconnect between what works and what we tell people works. Pay attention to the life of the people who are telling you what works.

[01:02:19] Almost all of them live conservative lives, even if they don't call themselves conservatives. That is 100%. Marriage. And this is one of the problems I have when it comes to the the mannisfere of today, the mannisfere of today.

[01:02:38] Pisses all over marriage because they feel that it's a it is too big of a risk for a man to take. And I say this as a man being avoided of risk very manly. Very manly. Um, say that again.

[01:02:58] Like, especially when if the possibility that it works out is an acceleration like so that means that because the way they make it sound like is you either get married and everything is the same

[01:03:15] except you just have a piece of paper or you get married and she divorces you and you lose half your stuff. And I'm like, guys, there's a reason why someone like Jeff Bezos wouldn't have made it

[01:03:27] as far as he did if he what if he didn't have his wife that right there to back him up so he could launch and take off. You know what? If he has to give up half of his stuff, he'll be fine. Like,

[01:03:39] like the they just see this dollar amount like I got to give her half my things. The most successful men in this world understand the risk and understand the benefits as well. All

[01:03:52] they see is risk. They don't see the benefit. And I say this as someone who is I say newly, but relatively newly married, been married going on three years. I see the benefits of it already

[01:04:05] in a matter of a few years. Now, there's a benefit to getting married to the right person. And, and, and so what what I think the man is fear neglects to talk about is the typical mentality

[01:04:20] of a lot of men who do get married, who end up getting divorced, because there are always red flags. They want to pretend that I didn't I there was no reference one day, she just showed up with

[01:04:31] divorce papers and took the kids. Like we know that's bullshit. We also know that maybe she was scandalous before, but guess what you're having sex regularly. So you just ignored it.

[01:04:44] Or you were dating for a while and it was hard finding someone that liked you back and you found this one woman so you just ignored all the you ignored all the signs because you had a scarcity

[01:04:52] mindset. And you're just like, well, listen, we're having sex regularly. I like her. It seems like she likes me. I guess we should just get married. There's like no marriage is much more than that.

[01:05:02] You need to have really deep questions. You know, you need to find out about their character. Like, if the man is fear was to actually do its due diligence, it would teach men to ask these

[01:05:14] questions, not to avoid risk. But we avoid asking the questions because they don't want marriage. That is ultimately the point. As much as they they they complain about women, separating the family. They don't. Oh, my dogs barking. They complain about women,

[01:05:36] separating the children from the family. They don't encourage men to ask pertinent questions. So they marry the right person so they can have a solid family. And these things are really

[01:05:46] important. So I know that when I was when I got married, I was ready for marriage and I was in the right mentality. And I knew that if I had married my ex girlfriends, likely would end

[01:05:59] divorce. Why? Because I was in the right mindset and that was going to lead me down that path. I got married to the right person who understood me. And we had premarital counseling to talk about

[01:06:10] very important things that everybody thinks that they've discussed these things. Yeah. When someone sits down and says, Do you want children? What are you going to do in this situation? What about in this situation? And you're like, we never even talked about this. Like that stuff is important.

[01:06:27] And I think the man is here would look completely different. If it was about having solid families, I actually I'm going to say something controversial. Okay. I think that Kevin Samuels was one of the best things that ever happened to black America.

[01:06:46] I did not appreciate Kevin Samuels until after he died. And then I went back and started listening to all this stuff. Go for it. Tell us why. And wait, I'll stop you here. I'll stop you here

[01:06:57] because I know there's a lot of people who are listening who don't know who Kevin Samuels is. Kevin Samuels is as to use Adam's term, part of this manosphere thing. He had a very popular,

[01:07:09] wildly popular podcast on dating, marriage and relationships. And he was he had a reputation for sort of coming out and he was black and he really catered to black people not on purpose,

[01:07:21] but that's just how it worked out. And he had a reputation for coming out really hard on black females and their expectations for marriage and relationships. Very traditional. Andrew Tate ish without the I suppose the same type of bravado. So that's who Kevin Samuels is.

[01:07:41] Go ahead and look. He recently died, unfortunately. So continue, Adam. The reason I say that is because when when he started going viral, my wife and I were dating and we would sit down and we started watching and she was like, wait, hold on a second. And

[01:08:02] then we'd pause and then we would talk. We wouldn't argue. She would say her piece, I would say my piece, and we would talk for an hour or two. And then we forgot like,

[01:08:10] oh, we paused it and then we watched some more. And then we just we would do this like, I think he would have streams like two or three times a week and we'd watch like once or twice

[01:08:20] a week his streams and go back. And then she might say, well, hold on a second, Adam, and we'll pause it. And then we would talk about what was going on. I feel like,

[01:08:29] and it doesn't mean that I agree with everything that he said. But there are things that I noticed about him. He was pro marriage. He was pro reunification of the family. I can't tell

[01:08:41] you how many times he looked at a woman and said, why aren't you with your father? Child's father? Why don't you try and get back? Oh, no, I can't. Why? What happened? And they can't give you a good reason as to why. So he never make no money.

[01:08:56] Right? They it is it is a it's a complete, I think the point he was trying to make in some of these situations that it's an ego thing. You think you don't need this man like,

[01:09:07] you're just unwilling to let go of whatever happened. So your children can have their father active in their life. So he was always about that. At least that's this is what he

[01:09:19] would constantly talk about. But those those things, the I think the part that a lot of women didn't like about Kevin Samuels at first is that he was very direct. And he wasn't Oh, you're a

[01:09:34] woman. Let me sit back. Yeah. You know, talk to you softly about your about your pain. Yeah. Right. He, in many ways, he was like some people's fathers. And here's the part that is sad. The

[01:09:50] reason why I think a lot of black women didn't like how he was speaking to them, because a lot of black women weren't around their fathers like that. And he said that a lot. He said that a lot.

[01:10:02] Where's your dad? Yeah. And I, and I part of the reason I know this, I'm using anecdotal, but I know of black women who did watch him who didn't have a problem with them. Because the

[01:10:18] first thing that they would say like, Oh, my dad's like that. My uncles are just like him. Like that's familiar to them. That's not offensive to them because they've been around it.

[01:10:28] And I think, I think he was one of the first people to sit down and have a relatively I know his show is entertaining. So you know, if you were rude to him, you would play the noise. Yeah.

[01:10:42] Call you some names. Right? That's the entertainment aspect. But beyond that, he was serious about, listen, you need to have proper expectations. Does it make sense that you're a woman who weighs 300 pounds, and you expect to marry a man who makes over $150,000,

[01:10:59] who's over six foot tall? Here are the percentages of these men? Does that seem likely? So why don't you adjust your expectations? And so you can have a happy life. That type of message is gone. Now,

[01:11:11] the man is fear is nothing but Jerry Springer. And that's the unfortunate point. And, and, but it's specifically for for black men and black women. I think he was one of the most important characters to actually have black men and black women actually have a conversation,

[01:11:28] even if they disagreed to actually talk about these things, and talk about how they they feel about this. And made women so upset that they made him listen to a multiple times to the point

[01:11:40] where they're like, I think I understand him. Like that his audience was mostly women. I mean, there's a reason why there's a reason for that. His audience was mostly women. And even the women

[01:11:54] that even like some of the women he was the most combative with, they stayed to listen. Like most of the time, they didn't like hang up and close their computer and take almost the entire time most of them, even after he insulted them, because sometimes he just really

[01:12:12] would be he'd just be like, you know what, you're a mouthy bitch, like you need to shut up like he would just be totally blunt. But yeah, there are people who are screaming for honesty. And it's the

[01:12:25] same way Adam on the female side, right? We have the trad wife phenomenon that's popping up. And it's the same sort of perversion of a very legitimate value, right in a legitimate value

[01:12:40] system. The value system is correct. The perversion comes but this is what this is because of all the censorship. I was screaming about this five, six, seven, eight years ago. If you don't let people say

[01:12:52] this stuff in public, what happens is they retreat to their corners, they go to their dark places, and that's where fungus grows. And all of these bad ideas just start to thrive and ferment in

[01:13:03] these hidden places. And there's no one to respond to the bad parts of their ideas. And then before you know it, it's mainstream because it's had this time to build this momentum without any

[01:13:17] response. Well, we've been telling women that you can have it all for 40 years. And that's turned out to be a complete and utter lie, an absolute failure. So now there are millions of women out

[01:13:31] there who are unfulfilled and lonely, and because they don't know where their places. So the over correction has been to the trad wife, which is the trappings, which is the, it's the surface superficial level of being a quote traditional wife. You'll notice they can't even spell out

[01:13:51] the whole word because it's not the whole thing. It's not a traditional wife, it's a trad wife. It's a fake traditional wife, but it's all a response. It's all response to the extremes

[01:14:04] the society has placed on us. And now where we are responding with extremes, there is something of value to some of the things Andrew Tate says. There's something there, right? There's something that's resonating with people that certainly their idea of being masculine, of being alpha,

[01:14:22] of being aggressive, right? There's something of value in the trad wife of being at home, making your clothes, making your, you know, putting a food on the table for your family. There's something of value there, but it's perverted because it's not sincere. It's simply

[01:14:43] reactionary. We are spending too much time reacting to each other and not enough time acting. And as you said, Adam, with the, with the women who weren't offended by Kevin Samuels, what they

[01:14:59] were basing their thoughts on action, right? The actions of my father. Oh, I, yeah, that makes sense to me. That's how my daddy talked. It was what my uncle told me. So we, it's too much reacting,

[01:15:12] which sounds ridiculous coming from someone whose full-time job it is to react to things, but whatever. We're just reacting and there's not enough action. I don't know. How you feel about that? Yeah, no, I, I agree with you. And I think if we lived in a balanced society,

[01:15:31] Andrew Tate wouldn't be someone we'd even care about. Right. I agree. Part of my problem is that one extreme begets another extreme to try and find some sort of balance thinking that it's balancing things out, but actually doesn't. It, you know, it's,

[01:15:56] it's, it's making everything fall apart. And I think someone like, someone like Andrew Tate who says one, one mediocrely correct statement that a lot of young men feel invisible in this world. Okay. Guess what? A lot of people think that.

[01:16:20] So what's so special about him saying that there really isn't anything, but for whatever reason, and I still to this day can't understand fully why him, but for whatever reason, he just caught

[01:16:33] wind because he made a few points that a lot of people already believe that aren't even necessarily controversial or even took a lot of thought to come up with. And from there, this is part of my

[01:16:48] problem when it comes to the reaction portion of, well, we already have the extreme feminists who are on the left. So who's our, who's our extreme male figure on the right? And so then we have Tucker

[01:17:02] Carlson who sits down with them. We have Candace Owens who sits down with them and says, wow, a lot of young men are really looking up to you and you're really speaking for them. Meanwhile,

[01:17:11] the guy's pimping out girls in the back. Right? We got to say, these are some, and this is part of my problem. When you do react, you're not thinking that. And if you were to think,

[01:17:23] right. Think about, Hey, where are we just complaining about hip hop being part of the Superbowl and how there's degenerate music is going on as conservative Christians. And here we are flying to Romania to sit down with a guy who's currently being prosecuted

[01:17:40] for sex trafficking. Hey, y'all, this is Allie Michelle. I'm a conservative social media influencer that has been censored by big tech. So I broke away from the restrictions and started a podcast called pillow talk with Allie Michelle. My show is a space to have real conversations

[01:18:00] about the issues that impact our everyday lives without the fear of being canceled by the big tech tyrants. Subscribe to pillow talk with Allie Michelle and FCB podcast on Apple, Spotify, I heart or wherever you get your podcasts. That's Allie A L I I come check

[01:18:20] out my show. I'll see you there. But is it that, is it that hard to believe Adam? Because I hear this story. I've heard this story over and over again from many of my black male friends who grew

[01:18:34] up in the inner city who said the only male role model I had was the pimp on the street. And that's how I model like, look at Dolly Parton. She always says the reason why she has

[01:18:46] her big boobs and all that makeup. And it's not because she, she thought that that is what glamour was inherently. It's because she grew up in a brothel and that is what the women look like.

[01:18:59] And that's what she saw for that, for her. That was the ultimate femininity. And there are a lot of men who look at that and all they know is the drug dealer,

[01:19:09] all that's the only alpha male they see. Right? So that's where they put it. And it's the same way for conservative men because men good. I mean, you can't even see a strong man in a commercial anymore. Adam, I was watching TV yesterday, commercial. I've counted five car

[01:19:24] commercials. Did not see a man driving the car. Not once. Every time mom was driving, right? If mom and dad were in the car together, mom had to drive one ad. That's nothing. That's

[01:19:35] just a thing. Six ads. That's a statement. So there are men out there who have no like example of real quality masculinity. So they go to the next. So who's bold about being masculine?

[01:19:50] Who's unafraid to be unapologetically quote male, even if it's not the what the godly package of a male is. And then that's who they assign those qualities to. So it's not right, but I definitely

[01:20:06] don't find it strange or hard to understand. I think that that is a very common phenomenon. And it's the reason why I say this all the time. It's the reason why the Barbie movie did so good.

[01:20:17] And a lot of guys, especially conservative guys, hate the Barbie movie and thought it was too woke. I didn't find it too woke at all. There's woke isn't in it because it's Hollywood.

[01:20:28] The reason why the Barbie movie was such a huge hit is because it was unapologetically female. There were no surprises in it. I didn't have to pretend that a guy on the screen was a woman.

[01:20:40] I wasn't asked to not once. It let me like the color pink and let me like pretty dresses and not apologize for it and let me like the princess treatment and not apologize for it. So, you know,

[01:20:52] it was unapologetically female. And that's what I see happening with the manosphere, as you call it, and the Andrew Tate's, who is problematic. Like I'm not saying I'm not defending him at all, but I do understand it. And I think it's valid for a guy like Tucker Carlson

[01:21:07] to talk to that guy because we need to know why he's so popular, because it's a problem. Yeah, I have no problem. Just to clarify my statement, it's not that Tucker talked to him

[01:21:20] or even that Candace talked to him, but it was a way of feigning like fan boy and fan girl. Oh my God, I'm sitting here in your mansion. Oh, Andrew, you're the voice of the nation.

[01:21:34] All these young boys are looking up to you. Tell us what it's like. And these aren't people who are inquisitive. And this is politics. No one's consistent. No one's consistent because they will have moral outrage about someone like Hunter Biden,

[01:21:55] who is involved in buying hookers left and right from all over the world and taking debaucherous pictures. Yet they will not say anything about Andrew Tate doing much of the same stuff, actually worse because he's the one profiting off of women being sex trafficked. He's

[01:22:13] the one who is actually the mastermind behind stuff like this. He's the one who's actually being prosecuted for this stuff. But the problem is if there is a grain of truth in anything that this man says and that truth agrees with their viewpoint, then they'll just ignore everything

[01:22:30] else. They'll ignore everything else. And I'm not saying that you have to agree 100% with somebody to support them. But man, I don't know. Sex trafficking seems like a big... Yeah.

[01:22:45] Even if you're like, you know what? I'm not even sure if this is true or not. I'm going to take a step back. No, they said, well, listen, we know that the media is dishonest. So these charges

[01:22:56] must be false. And I'm just like, that's you implanting your bias on the rest of the world. You're implanting your bias onto Andrew Tate and giving him a free pass. Because if Andrew Tate was

[01:23:12] Andrew Biden, you would definitely not give this man a free pass. You would be talking about how much of a degenerate this guy is, and he should be arrested immediately. How come there aren't

[01:23:22] charges brought? He should rot in jail. But the man, his name is not Biden. And even Andrew Tate's own words, I don't understand why conservatives like me. The man said it. He cannot understand why conservatives like him because he is not conservative whatsoever. There's nothing about

[01:23:40] this man that is conservative. This is part of the problem with reactionary stuff and people aren't thinking. And I don't know, there's, and if I could say something a little bit controversial, honestly, I think the political right is starved of someone who is famous, that likes them publicly,

[01:24:03] that will publicly say I'm a Republican, I'm a conservative, or that says anything that they tangently agree with. They are starved of that. And when someone says something, they become star fuckers. Beyond belief. One moment, Kanye is a degenerate who is

[01:24:23] talking about hip hop culture and oh- Thank you, I was just about to bring up Kanye. He puts on the Trump hat, Kanye's right. Oh, he's great. Kanye is this. He goes on Alex Jones Network and says all this crazy stuff. No, no, no. He didn't mean this.

[01:24:40] Everybody becomes Kanye explainers, like the Kanye whisperers, translating what he really meant. And the man said this, why are you speaking for him? But they just become these massive star fuckers. And for the quote unquote most Googled man in the world,

[01:24:57] Andrew Tate, to tangently say the thing that Republicans and conservatives are saying, they just become these massive star fuckers and they don't even think twice about it. They're just like, yes, fame, oh, come closer to me. You said the thing we need. It's true. It's true.

[01:25:13] And say they don't like celebrities. They die. They kiss the feet of a celebrity that says the thing that they like. 100%, 100%. Yes, I say it all the time on this show, all the time. Everybody, let's not be hypocrites. Just because this person is famous and said,

[01:25:31] oh, I don't like Joe Biden. We don't need to all of a sudden make them the symbol of the conservative movement. It's ridiculous and yet we hate it when the left does that. But of course, hypocrisy abounds. And I guess I really should bring this full circle because

[01:25:48] I've kept you long enough. But to bring it full circle to how you started out this conversation, there is this idea, there is just this idea that it's always somebody else and it's not us. We do that personally in our personal relationship. You're married now and you've

[01:26:10] been married for three years. So you've probably had some occasions to argue and be pretty sure that it's her fault, not yours and vice versa. Even when it is, there might have been times

[01:26:22] where it's like, well, no, the mature thing to do would be to step back and admit I'm the problem here and what can I do to serve this person? But that's not human nature. Our human nature is to

[01:26:33] project and it takes an extraordinary amount of self-reflection and faith, I believe, to be able to look inward. We don't have the ability to look inward anymore, Adam. Everything's outward these days. The clothes you wear, the color of your hair, your genitals,

[01:26:50] you know, everything is outward. Speaking of gender, not necessarily genitals, you're wearing a t-shirt, has two X's on it. Tell us a little bit about this shirt, because the show actually does have a connection to this organization. So tell us a little bit

[01:27:10] about this shirt and the organization you're representing with it. It is XXXY Athletics. It's a company that was started by Jennifer Say, who was previously with Levi Strauss. She started a wonderful athletic brand. I don't mind when I say this, the products are actually

[01:27:35] really nice. They're up there with the, as far as quality goes, it's up there with the bigger name brands. Even the shirt, the shirt's very comfortable, it's very nicely made. I have

[01:27:49] the water bottle and I love that water bottle. It sounds like, oh, it's just a water bottle, but it's not some cheap plastic. You can tell this is actually a really well-made product

[01:28:03] and I use it every time I go and work out. So I do enjoy that. It is a brand that has a message about truth, but not so focused on the message to the point where they just produce some crap

[01:28:20] product. And I think we often see that a lot. It is not a conservative line. It's nothing like that. It is a brand to me, I don't want to speak for Jennifer, but it is a brand to me that just says

[01:28:36] we want to celebrate the truth. And part of the truth acknowledges that men and women are not biologically the same. And five years ago, or maybe not five years ago now, let's say seven

[01:28:50] years ago, we would acknowledge that and no one would dispute it. That wouldn't be seen as some sort of extreme point. But now we have to emphasize that this is the truth. And celebrating the truth

[01:29:04] while making great products at the same time. So I do love Jennifer's passion. And she's become a friend of mine as well. And yeah, I fully support everything that she's doing. And I'm actually a

[01:29:22] brand ambassador for XXXY. So you can see my pictures if you go to the website for the men's clothing. That is really cool. Well, Jennifer's been on this show. You guys well remember Jennifer say she was on the track to be the first female president of Levi Strauss,

[01:29:42] and then had the audacity to question whether or not kids should actually be in school. During COVID, she thought perhaps San Francisco school should open and that alone got her excommunicated from she's a liberal. Anyway, go back and listen to the whole show. She was

[01:30:00] a great guest. I read her book, the biggest on the bookshelf behind me. Great book. We love Jennifer on here. So I just wanted and I'm not a paid advertiser or anything, although I will

[01:30:11] talk to Jennifer about that. I'm not a paid advertiser. I just wanted to make that connection. And you know, that's what we do on JLTY. We're not a huge show. We're not a famous show. But we have

[01:30:22] a lot of big people on the on this show. So connecting the dots. Well, Adam, I feel like we could talk forever. I have recorded this episode twice over so that I do not lose this file because

[01:30:34] this is a do over. So we will definitely have this episode getting out and we could talk a lot more. But I hope you'll come back and talk about some more. I love especially talking about relationship

[01:30:47] drama, which drives my producer crazy, because he's single and I want him to get married. But we have a lot of differing views on what he needs to do to get married. So I love I love giving him

[01:31:00] like grief through my guests talking about relationships. You need to come back sometime and do that. Absolutely. Anytime. Yeah, well tell everybody where they can buy your book. Of course, that's very important, but where they can find out more about you and your work.

[01:31:17] Uh, yeah, I'm all over the place. You can go to Adam B. Coleman dot com. That's my subset or Adam B. Coleman dot subset dot com. I try to put everything that I'm up to where the different

[01:31:31] articles are right for publications on their different projects, episodes of Breaking Bread, where I sit down and have conversations with various people throughout the country and sometimes international, which I'm really proud of what that's turning into.

[01:31:50] I love it. Yeah, you have a standing invitation out here in California. And there's a bunch of people out here you can talk to actually. So this has been a conversation I've been having for quite some time because it becomes

[01:32:04] Northern California, Southern California. How am I going to get there? Like, yeah, they're different. It's like two different states, Northern and Southern California. Yeah. How do I go to California and not get my camera equipment stolen? You know,

[01:32:18] yeah, I can't help you there. I wish I could. Oh, man. But um, but yeah, yeah, Breaking Bread. I'm I'm on Twitter at Rongo underscore speak. And actually, can I have a final word?

[01:32:35] Of course, please do. I'm sorry that I that I cut you off. Say whatever you want. I will give you the last word. So my final word is that because we were talking before about

[01:32:48] someone being star fuckers. And I'm starting to see it when it comes to Trump and rappers. And I don't know if you say it's like Waka Flocka wants to talk about how he's voting for Trump.

[01:33:02] Oh, Waka Flocka is great. And then at the same breath, they will talk about the degeneracy culture that exists with black Americans. It's the music. Oh, they flip out because the Super

[01:33:13] Bowl has rap music. But Waka Flocka. He's cool. The drill rappers in New York. Oh, they're fine. Like, oh, we got the black vote. Now we got drill rappers co signing Trump. Like,

[01:33:25] I it's over now. It's over now. So I just wanted to bring up how how silly 2024 is already. It is going to get sillier as we get closer to November. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Couldn't agree more. I think silly is a light word. I wish it

[01:33:45] was just gonna be silly. I'm actually concerned it's gonna be dangerous. And I never say that I'm when it comes to elections. I'm the silver lining person. I'm like, yeah, we've we've made peaceful

[01:33:56] transitions, you know, for all this time. It does. I know the next president is the one that's going to ruin America forever. But that feels like there's a not even election wise. There's just a lot at stake here. Yeah, I'm just not confident in the

[01:34:14] in the moral fortitude of the American people to withstand all of the angst that's about to come in this election. I'm worried that some people are going to pop off when they should just go sit down.

[01:34:27] Well, all right. Well, yes, you have the final word. We yes, conservatives, you do have a celebrity problem. It's just as bad as the left. The only difference between us and the left is

[01:34:41] we just don't get the opportunity to freak out over celebrities as much as the left does. Don't forget, Adam's book is Black Victim to Black Victor. Go pick up he's he's re-released, tidied up some stuff, added some things that he's learned over the years and

[01:34:58] in online heat on Twitter. He is wrong. Is it wrong? Underscore speak? Correct. Wrong. Underscore speak like wrong speak. Wrong. Underscore speak. It's been a pleasure to have you, Adam. You're a great guest and I've

[01:35:13] really enjoyed talking to you and I wish you the best out there. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. All right, everybody, that's it for Just Listen to Yourself. Please go like all of Adam's stuff. Subscribe to his podcast Breaking Bread. Don't forget to subscribe to

[01:35:27] this as well. If you're not, leave me a five star review. If you don't want to leave a five star review, don't leave one at all. If you have something bad to say about me, say it behind my

[01:35:39] back like a normal person. Only say good things to me. That's what I like. And don't forget to follow me on Twitter at RealKiraDavis. And until we meet again, everyone, don't forget, every once in a while, just stop and listen to yourself.

[01:36:03] This has been a presentation of the FCB Podcast Network, where real talk lives. Visit us online at fcbpodcasts.com.