This is the FCNB podcast network. A Braais Masoda day that we won't was maath and then we won't to say, oh we got it? Does? No one can dig that? Owen, you don't say this don't be okay? A Braais Masoda day that we won't to say and then we won't to say, oh we got it does? No one can take that, Owen dud' may this don't be okay? Well, Hi, everybody, welcome back to another Just listen to yourself. I guess we can call this one a plus because I was gonna do it by myself. Then after a forty minute conversation with Darbio, I said, we need to record this. We're like filling just golden stuff and people need to hear this. But today I wanted to talk about Candice Owens. I think I have to address it. I have tried not to take up a lot of space my podcast talking about her because I don't want to contribute to the weird divisiveness and all of the infighting, and I just don't care that much about her. So I've also just every time I mention her, people like they're so jealous. So I just try to stay away from it. But this is a big topic. It's going on because I wrote an article a few years back in twenty twenty about my feelings about Candice Owns and the problems she presented to Black conservatives and to the movement. A lot of people have been, you know, giving me some Oh Kira had the eye told you so love this week. So my name's been in the mix. I just got off of Jason Whitlock's podcast on The Blaze where we discussed it. He's pro Candace. So I had a lot of thoughts. And Darvio asked me the other day when we were texting back and forth, he said, why do you think that When we were saying, hey, we're not sure about Canada, she's problematic, a lot of our conservative brothers were like, Oh, I don't know. I think you're being jealous. But now that she's saying things that could be construed as anti semitic, which I do construe them as anti semitic, now it's like, oh, she's using this language and she's she's a problem. She's a real problem. And it's like, why didn't they see that before when we were saying it. I think there's a simple answer and there's a more nuanced answer, and that's what I wanted this podcast to be about today. But then Darby OO and I were having a personal conversation and I said, now we need to record this and make this some more robust conversation. So welcome to the show, my producer and host of the Outlaws Radio right here on FCB, Darby Omorrow, Darby O. Welcome to just listeners. It is always a pleasure to speak to the j lt Y family. Much love to each and every one of y'all listening right now. Well, I'm going to start by do I need to break I mean, I know in the future people might be listening to this and I might not remember what's been going down. But Cannis Owns and Ben Shapiro are in the middle of a very public spat which has been brewing for months now. It's over the state of Israel. But Candas has been sort of creeping this way. She's sort of been inching closer and closer to what many can consider anti Semitic, or at least problematic. I don't like that word very much, but I think it fits because I don't want to necessarily accuse her of being Hitler. I don't want to do that, but it started she was leaning that direction. Now people like me, as you well know, I've always had issues with her, but Ben and the crew started having issues when she started saying things about maybe not necessarily being in full support of Israel or the Jewish state or Jewish people. That just sort of snowball. And now there's a big back and forth on Twitter between Ben and Candace. Clearly there's some contract issues there where they can't just hash this out in private. But Ben basically she quoted some scripture talking about being feeling persecuted, right and using the scripture to back that up. And Ben said, yo, well, if you think that you know your employment at Daily Wire is coming between you and God, please feel free to quit. And then she turned that into oh, now I can't quote scripture at work, which I think is very coded. So that's what's been going on. They've been going back and forth and there's a big battle, and now we're like, where's Candace going, what she's gonna do? Does she support Israel? What is the anti Semitism? All of that? So Debing said, Darvio asked me that question, and I think Darvius. I'm gonna tell you my theory. We're gonna start with this. We'll let us guide us in, and I want your response to it. Here's the theory I've been formulating. People only speak their own languages. Right, So, when you and I were hearing Candice speak, and we heard the way she used certain phrases and also blatantly, like you point out, she at one point called black voters trained chimpanzees, It's isn't very it'sn't very encouraging. But also there's language you use, and we kind of all know what it means. It's buzzwords, right, and it evokes other things. And she would hit those buzzwords about black people and those topics, and we would hear it and we would say, this is the language of someone who's anti black. Might not sound that way on the surface, but we understand the underpinning. And we were told we were jealous, or we were making it up, or what's she's saying that's so bad. I think that the reason why a lot of conservatives, white conservatives didn't see that is because they don't speak the language. But they do speak the language of anti Semitism. That's a little more acceptable to talk about on the right than racism, and they know coded anti semitism when they hear it, and so the language is what they The language shifted, right, so now it's a different dialect and it's it's hitting them. And I don't know if this will change the point of view for other people when it comes to people like you and I who sound the alarm in the black community. But I do think it's an issue of the language that we speak, and those people just never spoke our language, so they didn't understand what we were trying to tell them until just now, what do you think. I think there's I think there's there's some truth to that. But the interesting thing to me though, and you know this as well. We were just talking about this, you know, before the show, but the language is actually similar if you are paying attention, right, like if you are familiar with these things, the language is similar. And I made reference to an episode of my show after October seven, and then I brought in to Jewish ladies to talk about what happened, and one of them was with the Jewish Federation here in Cleveland, and one of the things that she said that statistically, when anti symmit. When anti semitism goes up, anti black racism also goes up. And when anti black racism goes up, anti semitism also goes up because to people, and I think sometimes some of this is the natural American naivete. If you're not forced to think about a lot of these issues, you don't you don't have to think. You don't have to understand how a bigot thinks, right, especially if you're not a bigot, Right Like, if you're not if you're not a racist, if you're not an anti semi, you don't have to You don't spend much time thinking about how they think. But if you're someone in the communities that they target, you kind of don't have a choice, right if you're if you're in the communities that these people target and you identify with the with those communities, you kind of have to know this stuff. So when you hear the language of bigots. I haven't met many people, or been exposed to many people who were anti black who weren't also anti Jewish, right, right, you know what I mean? When we were that we were talking about earlier on our phone call, but one of the things he said was listen folks. This is why I always tell you, this is why I do what I do. In fact, the black community and it's why I'm pro black. The black community has always been the canary in the coal mine. Now, most conservatives will agree with you when you tell them that in regards to the breakdown of the nuclear family, or crime or other issues that are often connected to the to the woes of the black community. They'll say, oh, yeah, of course you're you're absolutely right. But when it comes to larger issue, excuse me, oh my gosh, I have to see so sorry. When it comes to larger issues, we were saying, look, this is a canary in the coal mine, but then they don't bring that to larger issues. So we're saying, look, if you're seeing racism on the right somewhere or just in general, or if you're seeing something that feels if people like Darby and I are telling you, look, we're suessing out this bigoted behavior on the right or this this doesn't sit right with us. We're not telling you, we're not accusing you. We're telling you, hello, the canary is choking to death. And guess what, there's someone else on the list. So it doesn't just stop with us. It starts with us. So if you think it's okay about black people like this, and when I say talk about black people like this, what I mean is pointing out some things that may be factual, right, factual aspects of the black community, but offering that is an accusation and not something that is in need of a solution or has a cause. Right, those are different things. So I think people have not realized it that we are the Canarian the coal mine, and we were telling you, like, if her language about this is problematic, you damn well better believe that down the road she's gonna say something that is really going to really be damaging to the conservative movement and a lot of people. And they're seeing that not only with her, but with a lot of some of these other so you know, so called influencers, these quote unquote conservative influencers that have said anti Semitic things. Many of them are the same exact ones who are trafficking in anti black hatred not too long ago. Because there is something in the mind of a bigot those if they hate us, they probably hate you too. Like it's usually how it goes. And part of it is, I mean, if you look at the way that they talk about like real real biggots, the ones who don't use coded language, right or just you look at the way that they my favorite kind of biggest right right right, I'd rather know, right Like, so if you if you look at the way that they talk about us. They hate black people and they hate the Jewish community, and how do they what do they say? They say that we're the tools of the Jewish community. They use us, and they make fools out of us, they control our minds and all this other kind of garbage. So it's it's always connected. Whether they say it overtly or covertly, it's connected. So a lot of us are are showing that frustration because we're like, she ain't change. This is the same person, this person all time with you and I I just got off Jason Whitlock's pot Fearless podcast, and I wouldn't necessarily call it a great experience. I mean, he was fine, he was he was, you know, a very pleasurable host. I have no issues with the the tone of the interview, but the interview itself was weird to me, and Beard into weird areas and that was one of the one of the things that we talked about. I was like, look, this is not new because because the way he set up the question, the original question for me was like he said something like, why is it that this beef between Ben and Candace all of a sudden has you saying that Candace? Is that this fits your narrative for Candace. It's all of a sudden now that Ben, And it was almost like accusing me, like I didn't care before before Ben got involved. It felt like that, you know. And that's the other thing that's hard to have, Like it's hard to have these conversations because a lot of stuff is new and people like this speaking subtext a lot, and so part of his thing and part of a lot of people sing is like and cannas Is thing is like, well what am I saying? That's so bad? Like I can't find a clip of Kansas saying that all Jews should die. You know, I don't need that clip, right, I'm an informed, curious American. I know what bigotry and racism look like, and I know the buzzwords, and I know the strategies behind being able to sit because I follow the hate groups, right, I mean the real hate groups, like the KKK. I follow those online sometimes because for my work I need to keep up with what they're saying and what they're doing. So I know how they talk, and I know the language the use, and I know what it means underneath. That doesn't mean because you use that language that you're automatically a bigot. But you put it in a pattern, right, you put it in context, it suddenly looks different. And so that was the problem I was having. Talking to Jason's He's like, well, tell me one thing that she said that about Jews that have really has to upset and it's like, it's not like that, there's something underneath here, and you have to understand. This is who she's always been. This isn't because of Ben. I don't know Ben not friends of mine. I mean, I know I'm like acquainted with Ben. We could say hi passing and recognize each other's faces, but we're not friends. I've never worked for him. And this has nothing to do with Shapiro. I also had issues with Shapiro, if you recall, I had issues when he higher kids in the first place. So it's not like I'm taking a side, but I just think that's what we're saying, we're saying, like this is who she always was. It's just now she's talking about things that you care about well, and now it's so the atrocities of October seventh were so was such a shock to the system that to see people try to this be dismissive, you know this quickly after it. It's hard for people to look to look away from that. It's hard. It's and I think sometimes the thing about Americans, like I truly believe that the average American is not a big yeah right, But I also think that the average Americans sometimes is naive about big a treat and so we get uncomfortable. We don't want to look, we don't want to look the devil an eye. So we look for other reasons because we just can't accept that that level of hatred still exists in the world and in our country. So we have so our brain, the American and when I say ah, I mean American. The American brain sometimes tends to look for complicated answers when the answer is really simple, this person's a biggie, you know what I mean. And so I think sometimes when you're talking and dealing with people who are not forced to have to deal with these issues like we are. It's kind of important for me to know if you like black people or not. It's kind of important for me to know, like if I'm standing next to you, if you hate me or not. Like we don't have that luxury, you know what I mean, We don't have that luxury of ignoring these things or coming up with alternative excuses for them. And on top of that, we have our own internal checks. I do this, and Kira, I know you do this as well. We always because we don't want to come across as like the over sensitive black person. We so we have our own internal checks like okay, am I tripping? Like are they really doing that? You know what I mean? Right? Because nobody wants to be the angry black person, right, Nobody wants to be the one who's like offended at everything, like we those of us who don't do this as stick Like, we really don't want to be the angry black person. So when you hear us say something, we really feel it and we thought about it because we've already counted the call the thing. After a while, I just sort of stopped responding to any of it because I realized it doesn't matter. People have their opinions, but you know, because you were on some of those threads, like when I first wrote that article, how many people, even some of my own friends who some who of you have still not apologized to me. By the way, even some of my own friends in the conservative movement who have known me for a long time, were like, you know, I think we're gonna agree to disagree here because I think maybe there's a little bit of jealousy here. I think you're jealous. And at first I was like, this is hurtful because it's literally my job to be thoughtful, and so nobody, none of my friends or if you're a listener, you know that I don't say things that I don't think of about the whole point of this show is to think through things. So you know, you should know if you know anything about me, that I wouldn't say something like that if I hadn't really put a lot of thought into it and really considered it and really been bothered. And Darville, you know, because I talked to you before I dropped that article, because I knew that it was going to have blowback, and I was like, should I do this? You know, but it's been sitting on my heart for months and it won't go away. And you were like, no, you gotta you got to speak the truth. It's your job, it's what you've promised people to do. And jealous, you're just jealous. No, I'm thinking through this issue. It's not a matter of just disagreeing with her. I'm disturbed by some of the things that she's saying. I'm more disturbed by how willingly many white conservatives are taking her criticisms of the black community and and also understanding that she's and don't care that she's not offering solutions. She's literally just confirming what you think of us. And that's what feels good because you're like, oh, I'm not a bigot. Here's this black woman saying that, you know, black people have less, have a lower IQ too, or whatever the thing is. So I always presented that we're thoughtful. We're not and I did. I did sit down, Darby and ask myself, am I jealous? Is this what's motivating this? And let's face it, she's wealthier, she's younger, she's thinner, she's more successful, she's certainly more influential, So of course there's a lot to be jealous of So it's hard to tell people in the face of all that, no, I'm not jealous. I'm just trying to share my opinion and tell you the truth of what I think this person is. I resented that, and I be honest, a little bit of resentment that I have still from people who knew me very well and knew who I was and new and I got into this movement and still thought, well, cares just a little jealous because she wasn't the one well And and what's wild to me is and you you handled that a lot better than I would. Even right now, you're still showing grace because to me, that whole, that whole idea of oh, well, she's just jealous, it's BS like that's BS. First of all, it plays into this narrative that if you're black on the right, you can only have there's only a certain acceptable level of of of of thought processes that you can have and if it looks any differently, then there's that's a problem like that. There is the we call it the chosen Negro right, and that is to subject you to take someone who has been in this industry for over a decade and to diminish you like that was always I was always probably more offended by you were because you got more grace than I do. But like that, I always had a problem with that. I always Nobody can ever say whether they agree with you or disagree with you, and I don't always agree with you, but whether you whether you agree or disagree, nobody can ever say that you're not a thoughtful person. You haven't actually, But again the negative of the problem with Candace right there, there was no thinking involved in what she offers. There's no thing it's there. There are a lot of white people who are tired of being called racist, tired of being accused of bigotry, and you do have some issues with it, and some of them might even be genuine. I'm not even trying to prosecute this right now. All I'm saying is there are a lot of people who have negative feelings about black Americans, a lot of conservatives, and a woman like Candace confirmed that for them, right, and that's what made them feel good about her. Okay, I'm not a racist because this is and you're not. You're probably like you said, you're probably not a racist. There probably actually is some good reasoning behind how you're feeling, and then we can talk about solutions. But Candice was just in the article I called her a bomb thrower. You know, I dropped these bombs and then everybody else has to clean up the mess. And that everybody else was me and you. Because while white conservatives have themselves convinced that she was winning over black voters handover foot with blegxit, you and I actually know black people actually live and work and communicate in the black community, and we know that just wasn't true. We knew when we were facing our black family and friends, who were mostly liberal because most of us are, that we were struggling to compensate for the damage that Candice did. She offered no help none. To you, it might sound like, oh, she's just speaking truth to power when she says that ex percentage of the crime in America is committed by ex percentage of black males, she's just telling you the truth. Well, why why is she telling me that? If I tell you that statistic, Darviya, because I want to talk about why that is. I want to talk about the things that led to it, and I want to talk about the things that lead us out of this and how we as Republicans and conservatives can be the catalyst for that change. She brings it up because it makes you feel good to know that you're not the problem that they are exactly exactly and the issue fundamentally that I think is unfortunate sometimes and I try to stress this because I really want white conservatives to understand this because at the end of the day, like you see, you see us in the battle, but it's really not about us. The battle is over you. The battle is over you and your mind and your influence because a lot of you know, a lot of the white conservatives that listened to the show, and I know it's more than just white conservatives listen to the show, but the white conservatives who are listened to the show right now, a lot of you don't understand the level of power and influence that you actually have. This battle is over access to you. And the reason why someone like Candace says the things that she does, like I wish white conservatives would understand how insulting it is to them because she says these things, because she's saying what she thinks you want to hear. That's it in a nutshell, whether you know, whether you're aware of it or not. She's so she may be giving you a get out of racism free card, but she's basically saying that she believes that you're When she says and does the things that she does, she's saying it because she believes that that's what you want. And if that's not what you want, then you have to start rejecting that. That's the bottom line, hot topics, the news of the day, in depth interviews, and a whole lot more. It's The Outlaws Radio Show. Subscribe to the show on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or wherever you get your podcasts today, that's out Laws, The Outlaws Radio Show, n FCB podcasts. And so, how many of you out there are thinking about what you want? What do you want to hear? Now, if you're listening to Jilty, you're already curious person, So maybe that question really wasn't for you. But if you're a fan of the show, you know that's what we talk about a lot, and I do I have some hard messages. I've given hard messages as well. Right, I've not let the black community off the hook. I've not let men or women off the hook. You guys know you're always going to get my sincere opinion, and there's many sides to every story, but you also know that I believe we should hold ourselves accountable because I believe we have and by we I mean Conservatives and sometimes Republicans can be included in that we have the keys to the kingdom. I believe we have the keys to lifting the black community out of poverty, out of shame, out of like these cycles. That's why I'm a conservative. I'm not a conservative because of other conservatives. The conservative because I believe these principles will work for the black community, and I can recognize when somebody else thinks the same way, even if we differ on certain things, like for instance, DARVYO and I right, we have differing opinions and they clash sometimes, but we're both on the same side. We believe in black community and we believe in America. Well believe those two things should work together, hand in hand for the most prosperity. I don't think Cannice is that person. I don't think she believes that, and I do I think the fact that so many people, white people are taken with her to the point where they would look at me and say, oh, you're just jealous that. I think Darvo, you hit a good point. It's like maybe she's speaking, she's think she thinks you're Oasis, and she's saying the things she thinks you want to hear. I'm saying the things I know some of you don't want to hear. I don't have the million dollar coll And you know, I've said this on social media before because I've gotten into it with some of these because you know, in this space, as you become a little known, you know what I mean, it's like we ain't we're not we're not on canvas level, but we ain't. You know, nobody's like we got a little name out here in these streets. But you know, there will be some there will be some folks who come up on your timeline or whatever who are supporters of hers, and sometimes there's a clash or whatever. And one of the things that I've said to that audience is I actually respect you. I respect you enough to not lie to you. I find it to be disrespectful. I think it's disrespectful when pundits and politicians and influencers tell you what they think you want to hear, even if they know it's not true. I think that's disrespectful to the audience because it's making you believe things that aren't true, and they're weaponizing they try to take that and they try to weaponize that for their own personal gain and personal benefit. I find that to be disrespectful. When I said, you know what I said about this audience at the beginning, like I meant that I meet I love every single person who listens to this show, who listens to my show, who consumes anything we create in this network. I have a genuine love and respect for these people because I know that you have a million other options and you chose to spend your time with us, and that is not lost on me. So I but I love you enough to tell you the truth. I love you enough to not lie to you. And there are too many people on the conservative space, in particular, because that's what we're talking about today. There are too many people in the conservative space who have no respect for you whatsoever and you and there are too many of you that will get out there and you'll fight me, You'll fight Tira for people who don't give a damn about you. Thank you, And that was my love when they were like, well, you're a little jealous, like she doesn't care about you. I care about you, and I care about the conservative movement. I'm fighting for this right and that is the other difference is like you say it, I think you said it when we're talking on the phone. You said. The difference also is love, like you can tell when people come to you and love. So I'm a part of this movement because I love America and I love black people, and I know when I'm talking to another person, another black person, because I don't think other people other races really go around thinking about whether they love or hate black people. You know, it's not a question. But yeah, for black people, some of us don't love other black people. That's just the knitting vidy of it. And believe me because I've been accused of being one of those people many times over the years as a black conservative right, self hating all of that. But there are self hating black people out there, and I know those people when I come across them and I see them, and you have a sense. You can sense when you're talking to somebody who is telling you something out of love. So when I talk about difficult issues on this show, or even when I have critiques for the black community. My whole reasoning, as you just said, was to is to think through things that will make us better. Think through solutions. How do we fix it, How do we make it better? Why because I want more Black people voting conservative? Why because I think when we have more conservative values ruling and governing in this country, that's going to be better for everybody. Because I love America and I love black people, and I don't hear the language of love from Candice about black people, and that doesn't mean everybody. Before you get upset, Before you get upset at that statement, I want you to put yourself in the place. Whatever. If you're Jewish, do you know when you're talking to another Jewish person who loves being a Jew and loves the culture and love you know? Right? You know? So it's the same for us. So don't be too judgmental of me when I say that we know because some language is coded. And that is what I was trying to tell Whitlock, and that is what I'm trying to What we were trying to say about Candace is we have a sense that there's no love underneath this bombasticness. And yes, some of the stuff she's saying is true. But if it's true, what's the solution there's that is not even on her agenda. That's the difference between someone like her and someone like us, and why we had a problem with her. We can hear it, we can see it. So when we're saying, like she was quoting scripture which was clearly aimed at Ben, I don't know why she's even pretending that she was, like, oh, I was just quoting an innocent scripture and then get out of contact. How dare you here? You get offended at me quote quoting scripture? Like how here you get mad? Like, come on, man, scripture and then being upset that a that a Jew doesn't think that New Testament scripture is. It's like, you know, like there was a bunch of people who are like Ben said, he thinks Jesus is in the Messiah. Well Ben's Jewish, everybody. I don't know if this is I don't know if this is like news to you, but some people, some Christians have a problem with that. But quoting scripture and then Ben telling her, hey, well you know what if you think that this job is coming between you and God, then you quit and turning that into now you're telling me I can't quote scripture at work. To me, that sounds like see what the Jews do. Mm hmm. Absolutely, that was a clear and I don't even like I always put put it in quotation when I say this, But that was a clear quote of quote Christian anti semitism. And the reason why I put it in quotations is because I think it's completely illogical for a Christian to be anti Semitic. First of all, the Bible is very clear about Jews and about the State of Israel, and that we should be supporting the State of Israel and the Jewish people. The Bible is very clear about that. Number one. Number two, I don't understand the amount of mental gymnastics that have to take place in order for you to both hate Jews and worship one. I don't understand the logic. I don't understand the logic that you have to go through in order to make that make sense in your head. So, but yes, I totally agree with it. Was clear that was a trap. That was an attempt to set up a trap, because what they try to do, what people who believe in these bigoted ideologies try to do, is to get larger groups of people who don't believe in that on their side, that's what they do. So what she did was she reapgnized Christianity to try to get other Christians to be offended on her behalf. So now you're not having a conversation of whether she's being anti Jewish or not. Now you having the conversation about whether Ben Shapiro's anti Christian or not. That was the whole That was a trick. It was a setup, that was what she did. She knew exactly what she was doing. And then all of these other people afterwards, who you won't never hear them talking about Jesus any other time. Now they all sending out tweets talking about Jesus's King. It's a scam that they use. Their using that as a setup. It's another way to attack Jewish people. They don't mean Jesus is king for real. They wasn't saying that two weeks ago, three weeks ago, four weeks ago. They're using that because they're trying to weaponize people's Christianity against the Jewish community exactly exactly. And there is a sentiment among you know, fringe Christians of like still like the Jews killed Jesus, and it's weird. It's there. I'm like Chris Rock, like when it comes to our relations with Jews, like, I didn't know we were supposed to hate Jewish people until Jesse Jackson told me. You know, I thought. I ch was like, I don't get it. It doesn't make any sense. But then there's some people are like, you're supposed to hate them, and so some of us do. It doesn't make to me a completely magical conservative position. Now, well, Winlock brought up was war, and I agreed that maybe you have differing opinions on whether or not as Americans we should be involved in any kind of military action with Israel. That's a different discussion. And I said as much like, I don't know about prosecute war, and I'll have anything to say about that, But I do know that the conservative position is to support the nation of Israel. There's no other position. And so when I hear Candice talk about Israel again, I'm saying things Mew and Me already knew. But when I hear her talk about Israel, I don't hear her talking. I don't. I haven't ever actually heard her talk about the hostages, the conditions of the hostages, the horror of people being pulled from their homes and scalped and raped, and the beheading of babies. I hear a lot about the genocide of Palestinians, and then when you want to responding, yeah, but genocide is wrong on both parts. You know what, someone's an aggressor and someone is just sitting there mining their own business, and Palestine was not just sitting there minding their own business. I just I don't understand any of this except to say that it is calculated. It is anti Semitism, even if someone is out there going not saying kill all the Jews. There's a lot of code and a lot of buzzwords that are and you're you're either naive, a damn fool, or lying to yourself if you think that that's not true. If you think every conversation is just surface level, I don't know how you got through life. And and here's here's the here's the thing too, Like, first of all, two points on that one. You know, if if you're standing minding your own business, if somebody comes and slaps you in the face and you knock them out, they don't get to complain that you knock them out. You you responded with more force than I know. Keep your hands to yourself. You should you shouldn't slap me. They don't get to complain if they came up to you and slap you in the face and then you turn around and knock them out, you know, saying if you don't want, if you don't want that smoke exactly. That's number one. Number two. The interesting thing about what you said, Candas has used the same language that the far left is using, that the far left anti Semites are using. And part of it is because you and I both know this that when you're talking about when you get to the fringes, whether it's the fringe of the left or the fringe of the right, they kind of look very similar and they say very similar things. The targets in some cases may be different. The only difference is with anti Semitism. The far left end the far right both have that in common. They are both well on the far left and the far right. They're both anti Semits. But in general their targets may be different, but the language is the same. The language is the same. It's the language of hatred, it's the language of bigotry. Once you get to the just because it doesn't anti semitism doesn't make any sense. It's one of the reasons. And this is another thing you and I have talked about. It's one of the reasons why I reject black anti semitism too, because that is completely illogical, that is not in our benefit, that is not in our interest as a community, that does not help us. Not wonder that it's unbiblical exactly, Well, all against is unbiblical, Like we start there, like anti semitism in general is unbiblical, but apparently we're living in the country that don't care about that. No more so if we put that part aside, which yes, all of this is unbiblical. But that's another reason, like I reject anti semitism. Period. I've had people who criticized me or black who criticized me for being against anti semitism, And I'm like, have y'all not paid attention to anything that I've said over the last several months. Do you think that I would pick and choose? Oh, well, I don't like this biggot this level of biggot street because it affects my group. But when I see the same people doing the same thing, to another group that I'm supposed to turn a blind eye. I don't work that way. It's it's that they're using. Like you said earlier, it's the same tactic. It's the same tactic, the same stuff to day, the same anti black people. As far as the right is concerned. The same people who are doing the anti blackness are doing the anti semitism. Now it's the same thing. So you mean to tell me that I'm supposed to be against them when they do it to us, but I'm supposed to be cool with it when they do it to them. No, I don't work there. And I want to take this moment to harken back to j. Lty of yesteryear and remind people one of the things that I have been saying for so long is that not every not every Conservative is going to sound like you. And this is the issue with blacks in the Conservatives movement. We're not going to sound the way you want us to sound. This is the issue with the black vote for Republicans. Right while I was complaining Republicans out, don't go out and get the black vote on Twitter the other day and I got a bunch of responses like for what what we gave them the best chance. With Trump or Biden's ruined the economy, there's still go no, no, I'm not saying what you want is for black people to come banging, And what I'm saying is to speak to black people and to hear black people. It's going to sound different. We don't have the same worries that white Americans have, we don't have the same issues, we don't share all of the same history. And just the same way that you talking about your problems is going to look totally different than your neighbor, your next door neighbor talking about their problems. It's the same way with black people, right. But a lot of conservatives all of a sudden, as soon as we sort of stray a little and say something that sounds like even slightly related to victimhood at all, like hey, maybe there's someone else who bears responsibility in XYZ situation, then it's like, well, see, you sold out, your your vote is worthless, You're you're worthless, You'll never and that again. Going back to Canadas, she said she was a white voice coming out of a black mouth. She said the things I shouldn't say, white voice, I should say. She was the voice for certain people, because I know not all of y'all out there like this, especially not listening to this show. But she was a voice that felt comfortable and familiar, coming out of a face that was not familiar, and that was attractive. And what I'm trying to tell you, and what Darvio is saying, is that is that to read, don't just dismiss us because we're saying things that sound foreign to your ears or even make you uncomfortable, or even that you might not disagree with. The point is we're trying to make things better. And until conservatives understand that black people don't sound like everyone else in this country, they don't talk like everyone else in this country, and they don't hear things like everyone else in this country. I don't care whether you think that's fair or not. I don't care whether you think that's not a good thing or what. I don't care. I live in reality and that's how it is. So until we understand that and understand that black people aren't going to talk like us and they aren't going to hear things like us, we're never going to win this black vote. Cannice never brought people over in Joe's black. So that was a damn line from the start, and all y'all who felt for it, it was just wishful thinking. Yeah, it's like the scam the people who were scammed by the scam artist. Sometimes you got to admit that you're the one that took the wood nickel, you know what I'm saying, And like you got, you got sc You've been had and you were talking you got bamboozled. And part of it, too is once again, if if you have someone who doesn't have any respect for the people she's saying that she's reaching out to, why do you think she would have any respect for the people whose money she's taking, You know what I'm saying. It's the it's the same thing. It's all about a level of respecting care. You may you made a really good point about about the language. Like I think one of the things that kind of frustrates a person like me or a person like Kira is some some of y'all And like you said, it's probably not a lot of people listening to this show, but some of y'all are like enamored. We know the conversations that we're having, the level of conversations that we're having. The way that we talk is a choice. We could Kara could go tomorrow and say the stuff that Candice says and blow up overnight. We know exactly what to do. This stuff is not very remarkable. This is a there's a blueprint. There's a blueprint to follow if you want to be in that space, and we know it if we are choosing not to do it, so we know. It's frustrating when you see people next to you falling for a scam that you know is a scam, and you know it's a scam because you could run that exact same scam if you chose to. You just choosing not to. That's why I had We know what to say, honestly, Uh, you're literally just eavesdropping on a regular phone conversation with This is Hallie Tom but absolutely absolutely hot topics, the news of the day, in depth interviews, and a whole lot more. This is The Outlaws Radio Show. Subscribe to the show on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, or wherever you get your podcasts today. That's out Laws The Outlaws Radio Show, NFCB podcast. This is a good time to read you this email. I got an email from a listener and you're I'm glad you're here because you'll want to hear I won't give his name because it's a very personal email, but I've heard from this gentleman before and he's a great supporter. He says, Hello, Kira. I have been a reader listener of yours for quite a while and very much enjoy your work. A few years ago, after you wrote your Candice Owen's article, and then Jennifer Oliver O'Connell, who has been on this show, her article also supporting her view, I said to my wife it was probably jealousy driving your opinions. It was only about six to nine months ago that I finally came around to your point of view on her, but felt I needed to give a hat tip. Well, I never flamed you or even left a comment on your article because I'm not an infantile crank. Thank you for that. I did think incorrectly, and I should have known better. As a pundit, author podcaster, you get constantly called out negatively, so I wanted just to say that you were one hundred percent right and you deserve the support and call outs that you're getting now three years later. Thanks for everything you continue to do support common sense and conservative values. God bless you and your family always. That's beautiful. That's beautiful, and I respect that. I appreciate that. You know, here's the thing and and Kira and I are both, you know, pretty reasonable people, and we do operate with grace. Cure has a little more grace than I do, but we do. We both try to operate. I thought was a pastor, so I just I feel like I'm a microscoft, right, don't let yeah, don't let a fool you. She has her petty moments, just like me, but she has more Kara has more grace than I do, generally speaking, but we both try to operate out of grace. Like, here's the thing we know and I want to I want to say this on the record because I want people to hear me say it. We know that there are people who weaponize racism against you for political reasons. We know that. We know that people do that. We know that there are people who are listening to the show who have been called racists who are not racist and have been called racist for political reasons. We know that that happens. So we understand, we understand why there would even be a demand for someone like a candae in the first place. But the point that I try to make is that what the people in the middle, and I don't mean like ideological middle, I mean caught up in this battle. The people who are in the middle don't realize is that the extremes are having conversations amongst each other and weaponizing it and pouring it on you. I told someone this morning, I said, one of the unfortunate legacies of wokeism, and you and I have both been very vocal critics of wokism as an ideology. One of the terrible, ignominious legacies of wocism is that it made it harder for average people to recognize real racism, because once we put everything in a political context, it's easy for people to just dismiss any claim of racism, any claim of bigotry, any claim of anti Semitism, as you're just being woke. And so mark. The thing that is just as dangerous as wocism, as as the ideology of wocism is the ideology of anti wochism. They're both two sides to the same coin. So look, we understand that it's hard to navigate this stuff sometimes, especially in this environment. We get that. I appreciate that email that that listener said, because first of all, it showed a level of humility to be able to say, Okay, you know what I got this wrong, and let me wrestle with why I got it wrong. And that's all we're asking you to do, is to not just reflexively, offhand dismiss what we're saying. And if you got it wrong, we understand, we know why you got it wrong. You probably talking to two of the most reasonable black people in this space who's going to understand, we get it, we understand why you got it wrong. But now go through that process. Take that next step up, go through that process to why you got it wrong, so that you don't get fooled again. Q who don't get fooled again? But that is I mean, I I definitely couldn't put it better than that. And thank you also to that listener. I I don't feel you owed me an apology, listener, but I really appreciate it. I don't think there's no one owes me an apologies. A lot of people on Twitter, like Heiro is right, told you so, and I did like a couple of I told you so, tweats, but I had to pull it because because you because Gravia wasn't lying. I do have a petty streak, and if I love to get out of control it, I don't have any say in the matter, and I always regret. I always regret. So I tried to pull back on the I told you so. I was getting a lot of that, Like you know, people, and I don't think anybody owes me an apology. There's just I'm thinking of of. I have three people in my mind. Actually, I have two friends or people, Yeah, people I would consider friends who are Jewish and who were not very supportive of my positions on Candace and who now are very upset with Candace. And no one has apologized to me for what they said to me. And then there's one political pundit and I shall not meant it's Mail and I will not mention his name, but he's somebody that everybody knows, and he's somebody that I had a private conversation with earlier, early on when Candace first hit the scene and I was, you know, networking, I was trying to get some work, and I was like, look, I'd love to sit down and talk because I feel. This is all I said, and I swear I'm not embellishing or changing anything. This is all I said, because I know better than to say bad things about Candace, you know, or voice my doubts to any white conservatives that that just was bad for business at that time, and it was before I wrote my article, and I said, you know, I would love to sit down and talk to you more about like how we expand this. I was working for Red State at the time, and like I've been doing that at Red State, trying to hire more black writers because I just feel like, you know, when Cannas came on the scene, she's such a big presence, it just sucked all the energy out of the room. And now there's a lot of people that think that's the only voice, and I just think it's it's important too. And I didn't get any further, and he said, I'm going to stop you right there. I don't want to say anything negative about Canadi's. She's my friend and I think she's been great for the movement. And I never heard from that guy again after that, But now he has significant beef with her, Is that right? Very with her? Mm hm. He might not even remember I'm sure he doesn't. And no, only remembers me, great remembers my attempts to, you know, establish a professional relationship and work together. And I've always been a fan and supporter of his. But yep, and see you see how graceful she still is. Ladies and gentlemen, This is what I'm talking about. This is what I'm talking about, Joe. That was just that was so graceful and pleasant like this. I admire people who can do things that I can't. Sometimes it does take an aggression, I think, to push forward that I don't have, and I do you know, I do recognize that there are people like Candice who are in their positions because they are more aggressive than someone like me. So I mean, yeah, but I do recognize it can be a weakness of mine sometimes too. It's why I'm not very good at debating. A lot of people think I am because I'm pretty smart and I sound smart when I'm debating myself. But I'm not very good at debating because I don't like gracelessness, you know, And so I have a lot I have a big problem fostering aggression. Well, this is why. This is one of the reasons why Kira and I have such a great working relationship because we balance each other out because I ain't got no problem doing that well. I don't want people to think that, And this is why I don't talk about this very much, because then you become a Bacheler and I'm not a Cannas Bacher. Don't spend all that much time thinking about her. But it's just that she's on the radar and our fates are tied because of that article I wrote. And I need everyone to understand what happened to me when I wrote that article. I lost a lot of work, and I knew I would. That's why I had to call Darvy and be like, should I print this. I lost relationships with people in the industry who are influential and who used to give me work. I lost relationships, I lost fans, I lost followers, I lost clicks. I lost money because of that article. I lost respect for a lot of people because of that article. Because there were a lot of folks who DMed me to say I totally support you, Kia, and I know you're exactly right about Candis, but I can't say it out loud because I'll lose my I'll lose my fan base. None of those people supported me publicly. Some of them still aren't. So none of them, not on one of them has said, you know what, I said this secure privately, but I'll say it publicly. I you know, like it. It was crazy to write that article. I took a huge hit on it. But at the end of the day, I thought to myself, I'm an opinion journalist, and what kind of opinion journalists am I if I don't give people my honest opinion about things? And this is sitting on my heart, it's weighing on me. It's making my job more difficult. It's making it more difficult to evangelize the conservative cause to the black community, which is desperately needed. Well, and I think the importance and and you know, I joke about about your your gracefulness, but you are very gracious and everybody I think who follows you knows that. But I think this episode is important because at the end of the day, what happened you, you should not have to suffer in silence all of the consequences of what happened to you when you did that article. And now to see everybody all coming around now and there still was no this this is if they're not going to rectify the situation, this is still your platform and you have the ability to say your piece on this show. That's that's the point. And so I think that this is important. But I also think it's important for the audience to see in the audience to know because a lot of a lot of times you guys don't know the behind the scenes stuff to this. You don't know, like you see the outcome, but a lot of times you don't know that. There was conversations where Kira is like, Okay, first of all, should I do this? Second of all, if I do this, this is gonna be a hit. And guess what, because we work together, it's not just to hit to her, it's a hit to us, right, So we all had to and just because that's just just the nature of how FCB is, we always with it. So we're like, hey, and it was us that was in her comments smacking that uh and trolls and smacking that people who was attacking her, you know what I'm saying, Because we we agreed with what she had to say, and we still with her because that's what you're supposed to do. So at the end of the day. I think it's important for you, for you all to notice to know how this is that there is a real cause. Everybody talks about, oh we're uh, we're against canceling. We don't cancel people. Conservatives cancel people too. They cancel people too. You know, they act like they anti canceled. It's like Kira did take a big hit from that. She took a big hit from that, and there was a lot of abuse that came to her on social media for a while. And if you asked me how, I know because I was one of the main people in there fighting him every ding yah, because I don't. I don't usually I had ignore on the trolls by Darby. Oh he don't let nobody get ignored. He's like, nope. Look, first of all, especially with that, I took you personally because I know you and I love and respect you, and I'm the one that was on the phone I was on I'm the one that was on the other end listening to you agonized over whether you was gonna do it or not. So to see people sit up there and call you jealous for doing something that I know part of you didn't even want to do. That story has to be told. I'm not gonna just sit there and these people low my friends, especially when I know better. I'm the one who you call and I heard you agonize over it, and I just I'm just not that kind of dude that can just stand there and watch these people abuse you like that when I know it again, and I appreciate that. And that's like you said, it's why when we make good partners, because I do need people like I am not the person to sit up in my mentions and defend myself all day. I'm not that person. I don't even have that time. And I've learned a long time ago from my own background that you know, when people are being hateful, it only hurts me to engage. And that's personal. But that doesn't mean I don't like it when other people do it. I do like it when other people do it. So I really appreciate it on y'all, especially Darbo, but any of y'all who have been out there taking you know, always taking my defense and you know, just really being loyal friends. You don't always have to agree with me. Again, even listening on this show, you might have heard some of the things Darby and I are saying, you're like, you know what, it just it doesn't ring true for me. We respect that, we believe that is just fine. The issue becomes divisive when we start accusing each other right of well, you're not really a conservative because you don't support Canvas, or you're not really a conservative because you do support Canvas. I mean both. I recognize we can disagree on the issue of Israel and still share the conservative space. I don't agree that it's a conservative position to not support Israel. However, I don't think that's a conservative position at all, but I do anyway. All that to say, I appreciate your defense, and I'm lying if I say there's not some shoutow freud in here. But I'm trying to be good about it because I do know how that pendulum can swing, it can change, and I'll give our listeners a little bit of you see gossip. If you made it all the way to the end of this episode, then you've earned it. I heard from a stores not gonna say who, and I'm not sure how reliable sources this is. This is a conservative rumor. Milk the Canvas is trying to get fired so she can take up a contract with Tucker, So you do with that information or if you want to call information that piece of gossip, whatever you want. And I want to make clear that is gossip. So anybody be like, I can't just like this, I'm just spreading gossip like any normal American. So but yeah, I and yet at the end of the day, I know we gotta wrap up. But at the end of the day, Darbo, I think what I want people to come away from is I mean, yes, all of the you are right here is like that's fun, of course, But really what I want you to come away with is a renewed respect for the uncarmfortable things you hear from people like me. So don't so learn this lesson that maybe you shouldn't form your opinions automatically based on just the person who has voiced them or previous previous biases or allegiances. Don't form your opinions about that. But if you have people that you trust in the media just because they say something that you don't like or don't do or don't agree with, let that be a way to explore the topic instead of just canceling people and dismissing them. Like maybe maybe the people like me and Darvo and some other black conservatives who maybe say things that make you uncomfortable. Maybe some of the things we have been saying about people like Candice are true. Maybe maybe if you could just come away with at least that renewed curiosity, then I'll take that as a win. Absolutely, completely agree, completely agree. I mean we, like you said, it's about the intellectual curiosity and understanding that. Don't be so quick to explain away or dismiss something that we're saying if it doesn't follow the narratives that you're used to. We may be giving you information that you are not aware of because the narrative that you follow is designed to not give you that level of information. This battle is over you. That's I keep saying that all the time. I want the audience, to the voters, the people to understand this is an influenced battle. That's what this is. So a lot of times it'll seem like it's a like it's a fight between pundits and all of that, but it's no. This is a battle over who gets who gets access to you. Because there are still people in this space and in other spaces who control us getting access to you. There are still gatekeepers in this space. And one of the reasons why, you know, we joke about my level of aggressiveness, but one of the reasons why I have that storm the gate mentality is because we have to because there are always gatekeepers in the way who are trying to keep us away from you. Because if there are more of you, and I'm not just saying this because I'm on this show and this is her show and we work together, but if there are more people who listen to Akira, they're going to think differently. If there are more people who listen to me, they're going to think differently. And there are people who don't want you listening to Akira Davis. There are people who don't want you listening to a darvel ball because they don't without a doubt, because they don't want they don't want you to have that level of nuance that both of us try to display. Yeah, and I you said something, and maybe think about something else, but maybe this is a sign that it's time to sign off. Yeah, it is. It is about it is about access, and it's also I get oh, I know what it was, and I know you get this all the time too. And when we were doing our Twitter battling. The last few days, we saw this comment over and over again. I don't know, Kira, maybe you need to sit down with Candice and you know, talk it out like adults instead of being devisive. We don't need to be fighting within our own movement. First of all, Conservatives, y'all need to get over this idea that we're all supposed to be Kumbai freakin' ah all the time and we're all supposed to think alike and think all of the same things. That's no better than what Democrats do. It's okay for us to fight. We're disagreeing, that's good. You need disagree. You know what happens if you have no you know, you're geting. You have no disagreement and no outside input. You get like Gateway Pundit, you get Alex Jones, you get you know, I don't know whatever, you get CNN like you get halfway decent copies of original thoughts, and and so it's we should be fighting. I don't think it's okay to not support Israel. Yeah, I absolutely will battle any conservative who tells me that Israel is the problem, that's a problem in our movement. And if any conservative tells me that black people are the problem with America and we need to, you know, either go back to Africa or or vote the right way, or we shouldn't have any rights. I got a problem with you too. Why would I let that sit in my movement? I believe in conservatism. I believe that it is. I believe that it is a godly pursuit the pure principles of conservatism because I believe they will lead to success and value and prosperity. So hell yes, if someone is getting in the way of that inside our own moving you're damn well skippy that I have something to say about that. And the other thing is, I've never sit down with Candas who do you think I am? Do you think I can just snap my fingers and get Canda's owns to sit on my you know, mid level podcast. She's on Freakin' Tucker Carlson. Like, I don't know what these people think or how it works. And I've never been invited to sit down with her. And by the way, I don't feel like I have to sit down to her with her. It's not that I'm opposed to it. Like I'll talk to anybody really literally once I just did Whitlock Show, but I Alex Jones is the only show I've ever turned down consistently. But yeah, it's not like I wouldn't talk to her. But this idea that like there's something fundamentally wrong with us because we have a disagreement with her, and so we somehow owe it to her or owe it to you to sit down. No, this is a pugnitary sphere, folks. We all got opinions like our a holes, and we all say because that's what we do. So don't tell me I need to sit down Candace. Maybe if she invites me, maybe I will. But I don't think she has any intent on inviting me anywhere. Why should she. I don't have great things to say about her, but I don't owe her any explanation, and I don't owe you any explanation. Well here, and here's the thing too. You know they talk about it. Yeah, well you all should just sit down. Here's the thing. And it's not like this disagreement is over something trivial, you know what I mean. We do know that there are people in the political space that argue over trivial and stupid things that don't really matter, and it's like, all right, why are we even talking about that? But this ain't something trivial, okay. First of all, the way that she talks, the way that she talks to and about black people, that's not trivial. Second of all, support of Israel, lack of support of Israel, anti Semitism, that ain't trivial. That's not a trivial conversation. That's no, we should have it out on that. We shouldn't sit there if we disagree. We shouldn't sit there and just eat that. And especially from the place that when we're talking about Israel, specifically the place that Kira and I both are coming from. Our faith influences our positions on that. So we ain't letting up on that one. I don't care because at the end of the day, I ain't going to handle the money, y'all. You understand. I am not trying to mess with God. And like I told, we'll love today. The Bible's pretty clear about where we should stand on all of this. But yeah, you're absolutely right, like, no, we're not just going to sit here and take it. And I also find it very offensive the idea that we should that somehow we're the problem if we bring up a disagreement with other black conservatives, because we're all supposed to look the same and talk the same and act the same. To some of you, which is what I was telling you, is part of the problem. You need to understand that the language of black people isn't going to sound the same as you think it should exactly exactly, especially black people who know black people in real life. I always say, I always say this to and I point this out. I understand that there's a lot of white people, white conservatives, white people in general, who can go cradle to grave not having a meaningful relationship with Black people because we're thirty in the population. I get that, right. So I understand that you know there is a tendency to like have a you know, prop up the black friend. I'm not offended by that. I understand that you know there's you're gonna have the black friend. But my issue is when your black friend don't have black friends. Because when your black friend doesn't have black friends and they're held up as the representative of all black people, that's a problem. And we're not gonna sit there and just take it. When we know what she's saying isn't true. When we know the things that she's saying is wrong, we should There are some yes, I do. I do agree that conservatives fight too much, But there are some things that are worth fighting over. And the and the topics that we talking about today are things that are worth fighting over. You know, these are fundamental issues. That's a fundamental question. The supportive whether you should support Israel or not is a fun the mental question, I think. I don't think that's something that you just dismiss. That we can just say, oh, no, that's all right. You can you can go over there and and trade in anti Semitic tropes if you want, and we're not going to say anything about it. No, I don't think that that's an issue that you should ignore. I agree, you can't ignore it. That's kind of how I ended up in the middle of this conversation in the first place. Just I couldn't ignore Candace years ago. I just couldn't keep doing it and wrote the article and then it's just snowballed from there. I mean, you know, kind of like quiet for a while. But this is again, of course, because that's popping back up. And now the other day I tried to tell you years ago, and it was called the worst names in the book, even by people who knew me. But this is this is important, and are we doing our jobs if we're not giving the space to talk about important and nuanced subjects in a way that makes people think. All right? So I hope DARBYO and I have given you a lot to think about today in a good way, and if you have thoughts, you can write me, just like the one gentleman did write with that apology. Again, I want to thank you. I really appreciated you taking the time. So you didn't owe me the apology, but I appreciate you taking the time to give it. So write to me Jlty at ProtonMail dot com j L. T Y at ProtonMail dot com and ask me your questions, or abuse me, or do whatever you want. If you're clever, you'll get on air and you can follow me on Twitter at real Care Davis. Of course, don't forget to subscribe to this podcast if you haven't hit that subscribe button, it's a really easy, simple, quick thing you can do to support the show and great news. Next week, a very Merry podcast is coming back. We've got new episodes, so if you love Hallmark movies and you want to unplug from the politics for a little while. Amelia Hamilton and I have great fun talking about cheesy Christmas movies. So make sure you go subscribe to that so you don't miss our day view a very merry podcast, Darbo. Tell everybody where they can find more about you. All right, make sure that you subscribe to my show, The Outlaws Radio Show. Wherever you get your podcast. You can follow me on social media at d the King Finn that's D T H E K I N G P I N on all platforms. All Right, everybody, Well, we'll see what this episode brings until lead it again. Every once in a while, remember to stop and listen to yourself. My brands that we won't then we won't to say, oh we gott it does. No one can take that owen this gonna be okay? O prayers on Minisoda that we won't with pathe and we won't to say, oh we gott it does. No one can take that. Ow it don't with bath don't be okay. This has been a presentation of the FCB podcast Network, where Real Talk lifts. Visit us online at Fcbpodcasts Dot com
